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80hrs Paid. 😉

How can that be done?

As stated in previous comments I was on duty (paid) for 80hrs BUT take off Breaks/POA I was under the 60hr WTD Limit.

After a weekly rest period, you then have 144hrs before you need to start another weekly rest period. The end.

Record everything, I learned a hard lesson as a driver and I advise my driver to do the same. Record everything.

Ok thanks. Well I hope so than. I think if no one asks for next 8 weeks it should be ok? What do you reckon? Why I think that they may not. Cause they call driver for dislipnary interview within company and driver resigned before that. So manager confirmed it will class as resigned not dismissal.

Make a subject access request to the companies HR department, they have to provide you with any records they hold and any reports they have made internally and to exterior agencies, this includes emails and communications which involve you.

Thanks for advice. It just freshly happen. So let them give 4 weeks at least than I will request. What do you call that? Subject access request file ?

Here is how to make a subject access request

Only thing I van see is that you took a 16 minute break 20.59 but as you did not complete 4 30 driving by 22.44 you would have needed 30 minutes as that would have been 6 hours working time and as such would have required 40 minutes. Your last break was out side if the working time directive required break.

This journey type is only out of scope under exemption, if the driver has never (ever) carried goods or passengers in the course of their employment with that operator, otherwise (or, after the first time they do carry goods or passengers) it is in scope of 561/2006 (as amended).

New one on me that. Never ever carried goods in the course of their employment - where abouts in 561/2006 as amended does it say that?

It's a DVSA interpretation, not written in 561/2006 that I know of, it's in GV262 and PSV375 not 100% sure if they're even still relevant given the move away from published guidance to online equivalents that we have now, but I've never seen anything that repealled or contradicts that guidance so I'm sticking with it for UK ops. 😄

You have over egged the exemption.

I got caught once as I was a trade plate driver the vehicle I picked up had a new engine putting and the Old engine was in the back of the Luton van and the police still charge me me by carrying so my insurance was void so I would look into it more or as you might get done 4 carrying even though you're saying it's for your own pleasure

😳. Had you been able to demonstrate it was for pleasure rather than business then you’d have been ok as well. We assume you mean you were uninsured as the veh was being used for business purposes. Can’t see how that would apply to the OP 😀

If you’re worried the veh might get impounded, and it not something DVSA do lightly, then you’re already with a dodgy operator and may have wanted to check further with the operator (assume this is an old post due to
Number of replies)

But otherwise, record if disc presences part of walktoubd check, but no O licence is an operator/ employer offence, not an employee driver’s one.

Alas, for those who may still be working as Ltd Co drivers, you could be seen as the operator and that’s a whole new bag of issues to have to deal with, including using veh without an O licence 🙈

Depends on the standard days in a full time contract for that particular company, this would then be a pro rata allowance so in this case if a standard working week was 5 days they would get 80% of the full allowance.

7,500kg

Nothing to worry about in that report.

Why would you re-test if there’s nothing to worry about?

I'm not worried about those results, but others are, so that's my suggestion for those that have concerns, personally I would leave it.

Ask the TM, it’s a statutory requirement to notify if they were an employee at the time. Regardless of it happening at work or not.
What investigation was done etc. just coz they left or DVLA (not DVSA) knows it doesn’t avoid the obligation by the operator 😀

That is your choice. Personally I would show a 15 before 6 hours.

Obviously it’s my choice, but I’m just pointing out the actual rules.

Read Stevele response, I have said the same.

No you haven’t, you said 15 for upto 6 hours then 30 for 6-9. It would be another 15. As he stated. But I stated if you only did 6 hours you wouldn’t need a break at all.

It’s your responsibility you take as long as it takes. Many a time I’ve taken a vehicle over only to find defects and getting them repaired or change of vehicle before leaving the yard had supervisors and at one time manager going at me but told them ok you take or you sign for full responsibility if I get pulled over.

At a roadside check the DVSA can bring up all your details including the colour version of your picture on your cards. It's an absolute joke that you need to physically carry the card, you don't legally have to carry your drivers licence on you. Bit anyone who has not been able to complete 35hrs training IN 5 YEARS. I have absolutely no sympathy for. You've had ample time.

I did my last one on Saturday and current one doesn’t run out until August 2026! Get them out the way as quick as possible I say.

I done the exams when it was ocr and past both first time.
Done a week course through the FTA.

I just got given a bank of questions for the multiple choice and went over them till I knew the answers the same as any other exams.

Don’t try and remember everything on the written exam. You never remember it.
It’s an open book exam. The exam is more about being able to find the relevant information in your work books or paperwork.

I got done a few years had my licence back after my ban and been back driving just over 2 years there is companies that will have you on board no problem.

9 hours rest is the minimum in law it doesn’t mean the driver has to reduce to 9 hours, he is entitled to 11 hours if he desires.

Of course! But by the sounds of it the TM/Planners are making that decision for him. As always.

Then he should take the decision back into his own hands as it’s his licence and he who faces jail if anything goes wrong. 😉

Its also the TM's license at risk too. He wouldn't do anything too risky. You're well within your right to refuse to do the shift though.

At a recent freight council meeting I attended, Kevin Rooney was there. He stated that he and the other TC's think the current course is not fit for purpose. They are working on restructuring the course so it is more operational based and tailored towards issues, that if followed will prevent you getting to a PI. Kevin's arguments where, if you have a truck and your in business, you will have an accountant. There are 3 types of law involved in the current course, so why would you need to know that, when you would have access to a solicitor or HR department. His view is as long as you abide by the bible that is the guide to maintaining roadworthiness and other statutory policies and guides on the government website, you will be okay. If half the people they see at PI's followed the above advice they wouldn't be so busy. A very frank and honest opinion from a TC, I thought.

That a very narrow and selfish view based only being O licence compliant. The reverse could also apply that the...

“Pin money” misogynistic comment right there. 🙄

Yeah probably should have just said money on the side.

Does your company do international work?

No its Morrisons Supermarket.

He's misinterpreted the change in regulations then! For now, and the foreseeable future, it's still 28 days on UK domestic operators!

RHA got it wrong, but DVSA have only just, that’s to say @ 10 days from implementation, that the 56hrs only applies for international driving.
Now the question is, is it 56 days from the day your stopped where a Int journey is involved or stopped whilst heading to /from the border.
So if we did only 1 int journey, would 56 days need to be kept from the day of returning to the UK
DVSA has been typically unhelpful on the finer detail

None but they usually leave on the day their pay goes in the bank and they know they have exhausted all their outstanding holiday pay. If you get a request for a reference, which is unlikely, all you can do is put on would not re-employ but then again drivers are so short you probably would have too just to keep the wheels rolling. We are in a cut throat business at the moment i am sorry to say.

Need more info than what you've said so far to work out what's going on, are you starting roughly the same time every day.

Yes mate approximately same time in morning give or take half hour.

Remember long ago when doing the TMCPC, employment law - that’s part of the TM role in support of the operator to be compliant. It’s so amazing how folks thing those parts of the course /exam don’t apply to them 🙈and even if it’s not directly the TM’s role at the company coz they have an HR dept, it’s part of being a good manager 😂

I know no one's likes contact lenses. But usually the lenses are weaker than the glass counterpart as they sit on your actual eyes. Example. My glasses are 1.25 and 1.75 in contacts I need 0.25 and 0.75. not sure if this will help you.

I think it’s different for everyone. My contacts are STRONGER then my specs prescription. Logic tells me it may depend on whether you’re short or long sighted. + or - ?

Could well be right, I do know contacts are prescribed at different strengths as they sit directly on your eyes.

I have been self employed for past 30 years with no problems but I have around 25 different customers who I invoice monthly
I believe what tc s are meaning is people who declare themselves self employed but would only be working for you and hold no tmcpc but using yours - same applies on Ltd / big no nos

You can get away with it until you/ the operator get looked at.
It is more a reflection of a poorly managed operator.

It's just a warning/information (NOT linked to night shift working as some have stated).
It's just letting you know that you have gone above the daily average hours that needs to be maintained in order to comply with the weekly average of 48 hours.
9.6 hours per day or 576 minutes.
Any minutes beyond that is likely to trigger the warning.
That's why it varies each day.
It's warning you that you will need to reduce your working time at some point during the working time period (usually a known 26 week period).
If you get this warning every day then it stands to reason that you are likely to breach the 48 hour working time regulations eventually.

The wrong card will come up but it does this anyway. Take no notice, the card has worked. Go back to TDi to correct there parameters.

Thank you Bill, will be calling them Monday.

I have to say there must be a simpler way than having two boxes and leads everywhere!

Yep you would think!

Incorrect (yet again). In the example you posted it requires the weekly test to commence by 06:00 on Sunday. It certainly does not require the 45 hour rest to be completed by 06:00 on Monday. Having the weekly rest from 06:00 on Sunday to 03:00 on Tuesday would be perfectly legal.

The screen shot is indicating that a reduced rest should start by 06:00am Sunday. If states that if the driver is due to take a 45 hour rest (which the screen shot highlights in red), the rest should commence at 09:00am on Saturday. The screen shot clearly indicates that a 45 hour rest should commence at 09:00am on Saturday. Once again backing up what I said.

The screenshot correctly states “As long as the driver takes a full or reduced weekly rest at the end of the sixth 24 hour period then they have complied with the rules.” See attached screenshot from the .gov website showing 6 x 24 hour periods followed by a 45 hour rest.

There are no times on your example, it is purely showing that you can...

I was in a truck the other week that was showing 90km on the tacho, 56 on the dash but 63mph on my GPS (on the flat). The GPS normally tallies in with the rest, I was passing every truck and keeping up with coaches, so I assume it was doing the full 63mph. Would that only get flagged if I got speed gunned or camera?

Surprised your tacho unit didn't warn you of overspeed if you genuinely were doing 63mph for a period of time. Weird 1 but I would definitely recommend you stay under the national speed limit of 60 🤣. As you say unless you get caught nothing will happen but not worth the points/fine.

Yeah when I was doing 63mph my tacho was still showing 90kmh.

Yeah you would have to be caught by a camera or speed gun. I’m guessing they had it tweaked on the calibration.

For a Start an Indian driving licence only allows the holder to drive up to 3.5t for a year after last entry into the country.

But they can carry up to twice the load! 🤣

DVSA to confirm and publish their interpretation within the next two weeks.

Within two weeks of what date?

Depends on the driver, and what kind of person you and the boss are. I know the market is really competitive these days. After coming off the road and into the office, I spent 30 years as a TM, PM and GM, retiring this year, and our drivers were our life-blood. Mostly older guys with enormous experience, they would bust a gut for us. They were our ambassadors, their abilities won us the work. They were the people facing our customers. They would go the extra mile for us. Why? Because we were as loyal to them, as they were to us. They built us a tremendous reputation. So we never penny-pinched on wages. If the driver is an anus, pay him the minimum legal amount. But if you want to built a tremendous team of good drivers, pay him what he is due, then give him a bit extra for staying with the truck. Night out, plus subsistence (food) allowance, and all the hours he actually did. Drivers are not 'just' drivers - they can make or break your business. Beware of setting 'precedents' but...

Another reason to never use any agency, all agencies just rip drivers off and can’t be trusted so stay away, take them to the small claims court, it will cost you just a small amount and believe me, you will get the money they owe you.

Leaving the legal side to one side. I personally would not work for any company who deduct my breaks - no matter how good the pay or job. It’s a matter of principal and I’d tell them why I wouldn’t work for them. Maybe eventually they’d use a brain cell and realise they need to change their rules.

You dont get the choice in reality, many companies now deduct just take the break.

You get the choice whether you work there.

Yep.

As a provider we offer training for both. However, even if you’ve only done HGV courses they will also count for PCV. Just think about it, most PCV drivers also have a a C1 (truck) entitlement!

Do a print out write a small explanation I.E. crash on m6 and the junction they will have a record of it.
Have 9 off and crack on you’ll be reyt as long as it’s not happening frequently you’ll be good to go. 👍🏻👌🏻

I'm not sure that is at your discretion to be honest. Plus they have probably not taken traffic onto account. If your n9t a tramper then fair play but if you are then just suck it up and drive at 50 mph. If they have sacked you overvthe phone already then just walk away. They need you more than you need a company like that!

Are you suggesting that you believe nothing is written to the card whilst it is in slot 2? Or do you need to edit your question to clarify which information you are actually requesting?

Just to clarify. The tray on driver 1 is broken so wondering if tray 2 can be used instead. Potentially it’s a new tachograph if not.

No driver one needs a card.

Hi first time poster on here ive passed the paper 2 With CILT back in august and ive failed my multiple choice twice first time fail was by 1 question, second one was in October and I failed very bad on that one.

I done the one on December 3rd just wondering if anyone else done it and noticed a question in the mid twenties that the answers had no correlation to the actual question. the question was on about Current Assets - £50,000
Current liabilities - £25,000

the 4 answers was 1,2,3,4 with nothing else apart from these numbers. I have contacted CILT reguarding this and they said they would get back to me after checking and im still waiting, did anyone else experience this question?

Depends where you are located and how much trouble you are 🙂

trouble?? In notts.

Means if you listen and do what is right, stay compliant etc then your TM may be cheaper than if you are a right pain in the arse, don't listen and argue with everything they tell you to do. You're more than an hour and a half from me sorry 🙂

If the ETM works on fixed price contract, the operator can be as naughty or company as they like - there is no cost incentive to be compliant as ETm charges the same. That’s one reason it’s such poor business model.

Believe, you actually have to hold a valid license to do the cpc.

Yes that’s what I believed to be honest.

No you don't I passed mine without holding a licence.

Yes it does thanks. Plenty of conflicting theories going on. I made it back to the yard in 15. Just.

Unfortunately that is the way of the industry. The rules are open to lots of misinterpretation and misunderstanding. It’s almost like they make them so complicated to catch drivers out. It’s why most driver CPC modules have a bit of drivers hours or WTR in them. But even then if you haven’t driven using them you cannot fully understand them or apply them practically.

It makes my head spin mate. I know my driving hours were fine yesterday and I only drove for one day last week. I would have thought going 15 minutes over the 15 hours wouldn’t put me in prison.

You might get a warning from a DVSA officer at the roadside for it. Possibly a £100 fine. But certainly not prison worthy as a one off. Your transport manager is likely to have a moan about it but just be ready with the “extenuating circumstance” to justify it. Ideally if it happens again do 2 print outs, write the...

I just cannot understand why ETM do fixed rate!
His do they deal with the fixed rate when something happens requiring more time, more visits, more paperwork and more grief …. All for a bargain fixed rate.
It’s just a poor business model.

Can't see anything wrong with that print out, I wouldn't worry about it either way. The company will issue you with an infringement which will explain if and where you've gone wrong, sign it then keep it with you for 28 days. As others have said some tachos do some weird things. If it helps no one has yet been prosecuted for wtd.

Are they all free or need to pay some subscription?

Analysis system is subscription.

I use it when I'm waiting for a unit, at beginning of shift (sometimes 2 hours sometimes less) it doesn't extend your 15 hour wtd. But it does extend wtd up to your 1st break ie. extends your 1st 6 hours (if that makes sense 🤔).

15 min break between 4 and 12.30 is not taken.

04:00-14:00 is 10 hours. No WTD break in there. My understanding is that POA doesn’t count as break unless double manning in which case the first 45 minutes does. Have I got that wrong?

POA freezes your working time directive. The double manning bit is correct.

Really? So if I have 3 hours POA I can theoretically do an 18 hour shift? That sounds unlikely. Do you have a reference for that please? Not saying you’re wrong, just want to educate myself.

Night worker wtd warning of 10hrs working time within a 24hr period. If opted out, or not working within the specified night worker period, just ignore.

I start work at 0200 normally done for 1230 I see this warning most days, spot on pal. 👍

Symbols = 1.Operating Instruction/working time warning. 2. working. 3. driver 1. Then the explanation. 10h56 in a 24hr period. 👍

If you work for 2 hours, have a 15 min break it extends your working time to 8 hrs as the max you can work is 6 hrs without a break, I always have a 15 min after 3 hrs to get 9.

I c**ked up having my break to early in the shift.

Just remember that if your shift then ends at this point you need another 15 if over 6 hr but less than 9 hr or 30 if over 9 hours.

The occasional overspeed on a hill is not an issue. What is an issue is a truck that overspeeds every step of the journey because the calibration is wrong or the tachograph has been tampered with.

Just send her on. 🚛💨💨
Provided that road safety is not jeopardised, in exceptional circumstances, it is permitted to depart from the EU daily and weekly driving time limits and the requirement to start a weekly rest period no later than 6 x 24 hour periods from the end of the previous weekly rest, in order to reach the employer’s operational centre or the driver’s home:
by up to one hour, in order to take either a regular or a reduced weekly rest period, or
by up to 2 hours, in order to take a regular weekly rest period, provided that an uninterrupted break of 30 minutes is taken immediately prior to the additional driving.

Poor planning is not an “exceptional circumstance” though...

You can actually phone your main Union offices the number should be on your membership details ask to speak with your local Union officer. These have a lot more knowledge and a lot more weight behind them. As far as the company telling you what rep you can have it’s nothing to do with them they don’t pay your Union dues for you.

As an ETM, what do you actually do?
- Make sure trucks are downloaded
- drivers cards downloaded
- input the reason for any missing mileage (though there shouldn’t ever be any)
- make sure trucks/trailers make their PMI’s
- get infringements signed off?
As for charges, charge whatever you want and works for you, if it doesn’t work for the operator, it might encourage him to get the TM CPC or go elsewhere.

Obviously there is more to it than that, but we get the idea