Strange question but seems to be the place to ask the question. One of my drivers was spot checked before departing
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Strange question but seems to be the place to ask the question. One of my drivers was spot checked before departing
Strange question but seems to be the place to ask the question.
One of my drivers was spot checked before departing the depot. Our H+S manager checked the drivers walk around check sheet and then conducted his own check.
1 difference was that there were 4 wheel nut markers missing from the N/S/F on the tractor unit. Upon inspection the wheel nuts themselves there was no sign of movement or loosening etc. so the driver was told to carry on with his daily tasks.
New wheel nut markers were the, ordered for replacement for the same day that afternoon when the driver was to return and were refitted and retorqued by tructyre.
The driver in question was then the next day taken off his duties to be reassessed on walk around checks and re-educated where applicable.
Can I ask if there is anything else that you think could of been done in this scenario other than replacing the driver that morning which unfortunately wasn’t an option at the time.
No bad answers here, I just want to know peoples thoughts
Thank you
One of my drivers was spot checked before departing the depot. Our H+S manager checked the drivers walk around check sheet and then conducted his own check.
1 difference was that there were 4 wheel nut markers missing from the N/S/F on the tractor unit. Upon inspection the wheel nuts themselves there was no sign of movement or loosening etc. so the driver was told to carry on with his daily tasks.
New wheel nut markers were the, ordered for replacement for the same day that afternoon when the driver was to return and were refitted and retorqued by tructyre.
The driver in question was then the next day taken off his duties to be reassessed on walk around checks and re-educated where applicable.
Can I ask if there is anything else that you think could of been done in this scenario other than replacing the driver that morning which unfortunately wasn’t an option at the time.
No bad answers here, I just want to know peoples thoughts
Thank you
Re: Strange question but seems to be the place to ask the question. One of my drivers was spot checked before departing
Why had the driver not bought the missing indicators to the responsible persons attention? Quite right to reassess and make it policy and procedure to make these checks and report. If they are fitted and missing it is a defect!
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Re: Strange question but seems to be the place to ask the question. One of my drivers was spot checked before departing
the driver stated he had overlooked this and this was his 1st offence so retraining provided
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Re: Strange question but seems to be the place to ask the question. One of my drivers was spot checked before departing
What system is used for Checks - paper or digital. If digital would it not have come up as a defect on submission (if reported as such), if paper should have been personally notified (decision may have been made that he was to drive on)
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Re: Strange question but seems to be the place to ask the question. One of my drivers was spot checked before departing
paperVicomnettAsp wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 4:02 pm What system is used for Checks - paper or digital. If digital would it not have come up as a defect on submission (if reported as such), if paper should have been personally notified (decision may have been made that he was to drive on)
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Re: Strange question but seems to be the place to ask the question. One of my drivers was spot checked before departing
I don’t think replacing driving should be an option at all. As we can see for sure driver has not done checks properly so depends on the company policy either verbal warning or any written warning and re-training and sign the documents to cover your back and make sure do a random search him again in future and needs to documented so as company has follow everything in right way if in case something happen. If driver still not doing checks then it’s again company policy to keep him or other actions. Hope this helps
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Re: Strange question but seems to be the place to ask the question. One of my drivers was spot checked before departing
the driver wasn’t fired I meant replace with another driver to take the load onwards.craigRANTT wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 4:02 pm I don’t think replacing driving should be an option at all. As we can see for sure driver has not done checks properly so depends on the company policy either verbal warning or any written warning and re-training and sign the documents to cover your back and make sure do a random search him again in future and needs to documented so as company has follow everything in right way if in case something happen. If driver still not doing checks then it’s again company policy to keep him or other actions. Hope this helps
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Re: Strange question but seems to be the place to ask the question. One of my drivers was spot checked before departing
why would you even want to give it to another driver. You should have had the wheel nuts checked before going out and informed the driver the seriousness of this issue, let him do his days work then booked in for retraining if this is your policy. This could have been a genuine mistake but if it keeps happening them there is something wrong. He's a driver not a trained mechanic.varneon_UR wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 4:03 pmthe driver wasn’t fired I meant replace with another driver to take the load onwards.craigRANTT wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 4:02 pm I don’t think replacing driving should be an option at all. As we can see for sure driver has not done checks properly so depends on the company policy either verbal warning or any written warning and re-training and sign the documents to cover your back and make sure do a random search him again in future and needs to documented so as company has follow everything in right way if in case something happen. If driver still not doing checks then it’s again company policy to keep him or other actions. Hope this helps
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Re: Strange question but seems to be the place to ask the question. One of my drivers was spot checked before departing
that is what we did as there was no sign of movement on the nut itself and the markers were replaced that afternoonrobbHoop10 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 4:03 pmwhy would you even want to give it to another driver. You should have had the wheel nuts checked before going out and informed the driver the seriousness of this issue, let him do his days work then booked in for retraining if this is your policy. This could have been a genuine mistake but if it keeps happening them there is something wrong. He's a driver not a trained mechanic.varneon_UR wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 4:03 pmthe driver wasn’t fired I meant replace with another driver to take the load onwards.craigRANTT wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 4:02 pm I don’t think replacing driving should be an option at all. As we can see for sure driver has not done checks properly so depends on the company policy either verbal warning or any written warning and re-training and sign the documents to cover your back and make sure do a random search him again in future and needs to documented so as company has follow everything in right way if in case something happen. If driver still not doing checks then it’s again company policy to keep him or other actions. Hope this helps
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Re: Strange question but seems to be the place to ask the question. One of my drivers was spot checked before departing
yes I didn’t mean fired but no need to replace either it is a mistake or conduct. Doesn’t mean he is not good enough to drive safelyvarneon_UR wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 4:03 pmthe driver wasn’t fired I meant replace with another driver to take the load onwards.craigRANTT wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 4:02 pm I don’t think replacing driving should be an option at all. As we can see for sure driver has not done checks properly so depends on the company policy either verbal warning or any written warning and re-training and sign the documents to cover your back and make sure do a random search him again in future and needs to documented so as company has follow everything in right way if in case something happen. If driver still not doing checks then it’s again company policy to keep him or other actions. Hope this helps
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Re: Strange question but seems to be the place to ask the question. One of my drivers was spot checked before departing
I don't agree with written or verbal warning if this is a first time. Train up where needed and if happen again then take that route.craigRANTT wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 4:05 pmyes I didn’t mean fired but no need to replace either it is a mistake or conduct. Doesn’t mean he is not good enough to drive safelyvarneon_UR wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 4:03 pmthe driver wasn’t fired I meant replace with another driver to take the load onwards.craigRANTT wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 4:02 pm I don’t think replacing driving should be an option at all. As we can see for sure driver has not done checks properly so depends on the company policy either verbal warning or any written warning and re-training and sign the documents to cover your back and make sure do a random search him again in future and needs to documented so as company has follow everything in right way if in case something happen. If driver still not doing checks then it’s again company policy to keep him or other actions. Hope this helps
Re: Strange question but seems to be the place to ask the question. One of my drivers was spot checked before departing
Big question why did you get Truck tyre out to do a retorque for a couple of missing wheel nut indicators? On the tankers I run they are a consumable item. It sounds like making a mountain out of a mole hill.
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Re: Strange question but seems to be the place to ask the question. One of my drivers was spot checked before departing
This is a Positive post :
The fact that there were no spare wheel nut markers available & then the driver was sent on his way, without the wheel nuts being re-tourqed immediately, says more about your H&S managers protocols than anything.
Maybe Trucktyre should have attended immediately & the driver reassessed & educated, warned, accordingly, whilst the problem was rectified, before either the vehicle or driver continues the daily duties.
Proactive not Reactive safety management would be the way forward.
All the best.
The fact that there were no spare wheel nut markers available & then the driver was sent on his way, without the wheel nuts being re-tourqed immediately, says more about your H&S managers protocols than anything.
Maybe Trucktyre should have attended immediately & the driver reassessed & educated, warned, accordingly, whilst the problem was rectified, before either the vehicle or driver continues the daily duties.
Proactive not Reactive safety management would be the way forward.
All the best.
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Re: Strange question but seems to be the place to ask the question. One of my drivers was spot checked before departing
Surely it depends on company policy as to whether it's on your walk around check. Missing wheel nut indicators are not a defect so as long as the wheel nuts are tight and torqued - the vehicle is roadworthy and DVSA could not even advise missing wheel nut indicators at the roadside on paper (they could tell the driver that's about it)
Our drivers have tapping hammers and training on how to use them- I've found plenty of wheel nut washers that were loose and therefore the nut is not clamping- however the wheel nut indicators were pointing in the correct direction so from a visual check they appear to be fine
Our drivers have tapping hammers and training on how to use them- I've found plenty of wheel nut washers that were loose and therefore the nut is not clamping- however the wheel nut indicators were pointing in the correct direction so from a visual check they appear to be fine
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Re: Strange question but seems to be the place to ask the question. One of my drivers was spot checked before departing
thank you this is the advise I was looking for. So ultimately the vehicle was still in a roadworthy condition without the x4 wheel but markers and no a defect in the dvsa’s eyes?10micheridd wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 4:07 pm Surely it depends on company policy as to whether it's on your walk around check. Missing wheel nut indicators are not a defect so as long as the wheel nuts are tight and torqued - the vehicle is roadworthy and DVSA could not even advise missing wheel nut indicators at the roadside on paper (they could tell the driver that's about it)
Our drivers have tapping hammers and training on how to use them- I've found plenty of wheel nut washers that were loose and therefore the nut is not clamping- however the wheel nut indicators were pointing in the correct direction so from a visual check they appear to be fine
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Re: Strange question but seems to be the place to ask the question. One of my drivers was spot checked before departing
always best to refer to the heavy goods vehicle inspection manual, we often print parts off to show drivers or have 'friday afternoon toolbox talks' If we have had an issue that week with. The inspection manual is literally DVSA's bible and if they are not 100% sure on something they will always refer to it themselvesvarneon_UR wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 4:08 pmthank you this is the advise I was looking for. So ultimately the vehicle was still in a roadworthy condition without the x4 wheel but markers and no a defect in the dvsa’s eyes?10micheridd wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 4:07 pm Surely it depends on company policy as to whether it's on your walk around check. Missing wheel nut indicators are not a defect so as long as the wheel nuts are tight and torqued - the vehicle is roadworthy and DVSA could not even advise missing wheel nut indicators at the roadside on paper (they could tell the driver that's about it)
Our drivers have tapping hammers and training on how to use them- I've found plenty of wheel nut washers that were loose and therefore the nut is not clamping- however the wheel nut indicators were pointing in the correct direction so from a visual check they appear to be fine
No mention of wheel nut markers at all in the manual (with regards to wheel security)
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Re: Strange question but seems to be the place to ask the question. One of my drivers was spot checked before departing
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Re: Strange question but seems to be the place to ask the question. One of my drivers was spot checked before departing
thank you your help is very much appreciated10micheridd wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 4:09 pmalways best to refer to the heavy goods vehicle inspection manual, we often print parts off to show drivers or have 'friday afternoon toolbox talks' If we have had an issue that week with. The inspection manual is literally DVSA's bible and if they are not 100% sure on something they will always refer to it themselvesvarneon_UR wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 4:08 pmthank you this is the advise I was looking for. So ultimately the vehicle was still in a roadworthy condition without the x4 wheel but markers and no a defect in the dvsa’s eyes?10micheridd wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 4:07 pm Surely it depends on company policy as to whether it's on your walk around check. Missing wheel nut indicators are not a defect so as long as the wheel nuts are tight and torqued - the vehicle is roadworthy and DVSA could not even advise missing wheel nut indicators at the roadside on paper (they could tell the driver that's about it)
Our drivers have tapping hammers and training on how to use them- I've found plenty of wheel nut washers that were loose and therefore the nut is not clamping- however the wheel nut indicators were pointing in the correct direction so from a visual check they appear to be fine
No mention of wheel nut markers at all in the manual (with regards to wheel security)
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Re: Strange question but seems to be the place to ask the question. One of my drivers was spot checked before departing
no problemvarneon_UR wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 4:10 pmthank you your help is very much appreciated10micheridd wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 4:09 pmalways best to refer to the heavy goods vehicle inspection manual, we often print parts off to show drivers or have 'friday afternoon toolbox talks' If we have had an issue that week with. The inspection manual is literally DVSA's bible and if they are not 100% sure on something they will always refer to it themselvesvarneon_UR wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 4:08 pm
thank you this is the advise I was looking for. So ultimately the vehicle was still in a roadworthy condition without the x4 wheel but markers and no a defect in the dvsa’s eyes?
No mention of wheel nut markers at all in the manual (with regards to wheel security)
Re: Strange question but seems to be the place to ask the question. One of my drivers was spot checked before departing
Which is exactly why I say that “wheel nut indicators are no guarantee” that wheel nuts are tight, nothing beats a proper “wheel maintenance system” !10micheridd wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 4:07 pm Surely it depends on company policy as to whether it's on your walk around check. Missing wheel nut indicators are not a defect so as long as the wheel nuts are tight and torqued - the vehicle is roadworthy and DVSA could not even advise missing wheel nut indicators at the roadside on paper (they could tell the driver that's about it)
Our drivers have tapping hammers and training on how to use them- I've found plenty of wheel nut washers that were loose and therefore the nut is not clamping- however the wheel nut indicators were pointing in the correct direction so from a visual check they appear to be fine
I would be interested to know who it was that “ advised the driver to continue with his work” and if anyone took the opportunity to actually put a torque wrench on the nuts to check them!
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Re: Strange question but seems to be the place to ask the question. One of my drivers was spot checked before departing
myself and yes a torque wrench was usedmattzPost wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 4:11 pmWhich is exactly why I say that “wheel nut indicators are no guarantee” that wheel nuts are tight, nothing beats a proper “wheel maintenance system” !10micheridd wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 4:07 pm Surely it depends on company policy as to whether it's on your walk around check. Missing wheel nut indicators are not a defect so as long as the wheel nuts are tight and torqued - the vehicle is roadworthy and DVSA could not even advise missing wheel nut indicators at the roadside on paper (they could tell the driver that's about it)
Our drivers have tapping hammers and training on how to use them- I've found plenty of wheel nut washers that were loose and therefore the nut is not clamping- however the wheel nut indicators were pointing in the correct direction so from a visual check they appear to be fine
I would be interested to know who it was that “ advised the driver to continue with his work” and if anyone took the opportunity to actually put a torque wrench on the nuts to check them!
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Re: Strange question but seems to be the place to ask the question. One of my drivers was spot checked before departing
true but I run tippers, so loosing wheel nut indictors is a daily occurrence, they get blown off in the wheel washers, quarry's, tips so they would never go out the yard in the morning if we stopped everyone. Instead the drivers have their hammers and then access to a calibrated torque wrench at the depot.mattzPost wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 4:11 pmWhich is exactly why I say that “wheel nut indicators are no guarantee” that wheel nuts are tight, nothing beats a proper “wheel maintenance system” !10micheridd wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 4:07 pm Surely it depends on company policy as to whether it's on your walk around check. Missing wheel nut indicators are not a defect so as long as the wheel nuts are tight and torqued - the vehicle is roadworthy and DVSA could not even advise missing wheel nut indicators at the roadside on paper (they could tell the driver that's about it)
Our drivers have tapping hammers and training on how to use them- I've found plenty of wheel nut washers that were loose and therefore the nut is not clamping- however the wheel nut indicators were pointing in the correct direction so from a visual check they appear to be fine
I would be interested to know who it was that “ advised the driver to continue with his work” and if anyone took the opportunity to actually put a torque wrench on the nuts to check them!
Re: Strange question but seems to be the place to ask the question. One of my drivers was spot checked before departing
If you are the responsible person, what you did was in my opinion, taken appropriate action to ensure that the vehicle was in a “fit and serviceable” condition to continue, like others say, there is no legal requirement to have wheel but indicators fitted, and unless it is “specifically stated” in a document or drivers daily check procedures that they should be fitted , and all present at time of check, it would be harsh to do anything other than advise / train the driver that that should be the case!varneon_UR wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 4:11 pmmyself and yes a torque wrench was usedmattzPost wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 4:11 pmWhich is exactly why I say that “wheel nut indicators are no guarantee” that wheel nuts are tight, nothing beats a proper “wheel maintenance system” !10micheridd wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 4:07 pm Surely it depends on company policy as to whether it's on your walk around check. Missing wheel nut indicators are not a defect so as long as the wheel nuts are tight and torqued - the vehicle is roadworthy and DVSA could not even advise missing wheel nut indicators at the roadside on paper (they could tell the driver that's about it)
Our drivers have tapping hammers and training on how to use them- I've found plenty of wheel nut washers that were loose and therefore the nut is not clamping- however the wheel nut indicators were pointing in the correct direction so from a visual check they appear to be fine
I would be interested to know who it was that “ advised the driver to continue with his work” and if anyone took the opportunity to actually put a torque wrench on the nuts to check them!
Re: Strange question but seems to be the place to ask the question. One of my drivers was spot checked before departing
100% with you on this. Wheel nut indicators can sometimes give a false sense of security (no pun intended), operators and drivers alike can become complacent with just a casual glance at the indicators.10micheridd wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 4:07 pm Surely it depends on company policy as to whether it's on your walk around check. Missing wheel nut indicators are not a defect so as long as the wheel nuts are tight and torqued - the vehicle is roadworthy and DVSA could not even advise missing wheel nut indicators at the roadside on paper (they could tell the driver that's about it)
Our drivers have tapping hammers and training on how to use them- I've found plenty of wheel nut washers that were loose and therefore the nut is not clamping- however the wheel nut indicators were pointing in the correct direction so from a visual check they appear to be fine
Often they hide issues, so a good look at the wheels closely (and as some suggested hammer, torque wrench etc) can often be a better solution to wheel security.
Re: Strange question but seems to be the place to ask the question. One of my drivers was spot checked before departing
Wheel nut indicators are not a legal requirement. If company policy states they must be present, a reminder and sign off to back up would be sufficient.
If policy is to retrain in such an event, that too is fine.
All down to company policies and how they are enforced.
The way the situation was dealt with is perfectly acceptable.
If policy is to retrain in such an event, that too is fine.
All down to company policies and how they are enforced.
The way the situation was dealt with is perfectly acceptable.
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Re: Strange question but seems to be the place to ask the question. One of my drivers was spot checked before departing
thank youDBCrossed wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 4:14 pm Wheel nut indicators are not a legal requirement. If company policy states they must be present, a reminder and sign off to back up would be sufficient.
If policy is to retrain in such an event, that too is fine.
All down to company policies and how they are enforced.
The way the situation was dealt with is perfectly acceptable.
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Re: Strange question but seems to be the place to ask the question. One of my drivers was spot checked before departing
Well nut indicators are just a visual check Merc lorries have a washer behind the nut they split and course wheel to move and will come lose vosa in Norfolk often make you take them off as they say they are not the proper way to check the wheel nuts they say always use a tapping hammer
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Re: Strange question but seems to be the place to ask the question. One of my drivers was spot checked before departing
there’s no consideration of the driver in your comment to the point that you either mis-stated or misunderstood. Why do you assume the driver has performed their checks incorrectly? Why would you check the wheel nuts before checking whether the driver has? Are you suggesting that a loose nut should be left in order to assess if the driver finds it?
You should always put yourself in the other persons shoes and ask first, not assume or presume. A driver might be sloppy but I’ve never met one yet who didn’t care if his vehicle was safe or not. They all want to make it to the end of their shift.
You should always put yourself in the other persons shoes and ask first, not assume or presume. A driver might be sloppy but I’ve never met one yet who didn’t care if his vehicle was safe or not. They all want to make it to the end of their shift.
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Re: Strange question but seems to be the place to ask the question. One of my drivers was spot checked before departing
I literally said in my comment this could have been a genuine mistake.billxNarrative wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 4:15 pm there’s no consideration of the driver in your comment to the point that you either mis-stated or misunderstood. Why do you assume the driver has performed their checks incorrectly? Why would you check the wheel nuts before checking whether the driver has? Are you suggesting that a loose nut should be left in order to assess if the driver finds it?
You should always put yourself in the other persons shoes and ask first, not assume or presume. A driver might be sloppy but I’ve never met one yet who didn’t care if his vehicle was safe or not. They all want to make it to the end of their shift.
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Re: Strange question but seems to be the place to ask the question. One of my drivers was spot checked before departing
What a waste of time. Idiotic health and safety. Zero risk, expense for no reason.
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Re: Strange question but seems to be the place to ask the question. One of my drivers was spot checked before departing
good drivers are the key to the business. I'm not saying treat them with kid gloves but a casual quiet word goes a long way. Why alienate them? The alleged driver shortage may have cooled off but if you have proven good staff you want to keep them.
Re: Strange question but seems to be the place to ask the question. One of my drivers was spot checked before departing
Did his walk around check state is all wheel nut indicators present. As our walk around check does, seems a little trivial if the check didn’t state that, and only asked if all wheel nuts were present. Just asking?
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Re: Strange question but seems to be the place to ask the question. One of my drivers was spot checked before departing
The reason wheelnut indicators are there, is to help decide whether a nut may be loose. If they are not there, then you are prudent to get them retorqued before fitting some and sending the truck out, if you don't, to be fair, you are worse than the driver for accepting that something could be wrong, but over ruling it due to expediency. Its good that random checks are being made, especially if they are being logged and outcomes recorded, but come on?
Re: Strange question but seems to be the place to ask the question. One of my drivers was spot checked before departing
wheel nut indicators are dangerous in themselves.22stevenomzo wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 4:18 pm The reason wheelnut indicators are there, is to help decide whether a nut may be loose. If they are not there, then you are prudent to get them retorqued before fitting some and sending the truck out, if you don't, to be fair, you are worse than the driver for accepting that something could be wrong, but over ruling it due to expediency. Its good that random checks are being made, especially if they are being logged and outcomes recorded, but come on?
If a wheel nut becomes loose due to damage to the wheel or, the thread has stretched then, the wheel nut indicators are useless and a false indicator.
I’d rather NOT have them fitted.
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Re: Strange question but seems to be the place to ask the question. One of my drivers was spot checked before departing
I agree, I'd sooner see more physical checks, but while they are there, and that is all the driver has, then he has to deal with that.PHIChrome wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 4:18 pmwheel nut indicators are dangerous in themselves.22stevenomzo wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 4:18 pm The reason wheelnut indicators are there, is to help decide whether a nut may be loose. If they are not there, then you are prudent to get them retorqued before fitting some and sending the truck out, if you don't, to be fair, you are worse than the driver for accepting that something could be wrong, but over ruling it due to expediency. Its good that random checks are being made, especially if they are being logged and outcomes recorded, but come on?
If a wheel nut becomes loose due to damage to the wheel or, the thread has stretched then, the wheel nut indicators are useless and a false indicator.
I’d rather NOT have them fitted.
Re: Strange question but seems to be the place to ask the question. One of my drivers was spot checked before departing
I'm inclined to agree, although I do think they have a place in some circumstances.PHIChrome wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 4:18 pmwheel nut indicators are dangerous in themselves.22stevenomzo wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 4:18 pm The reason wheelnut indicators are there, is to help decide whether a nut may be loose. If they are not there, then you are prudent to get them retorqued before fitting some and sending the truck out, if you don't, to be fair, you are worse than the driver for accepting that something could be wrong, but over ruling it due to expediency. Its good that random checks are being made, especially if they are being logged and outcomes recorded, but come on?
If a wheel nut becomes loose due to damage to the wheel or, the thread has stretched then, the wheel nut indicators are useless and a false indicator.
I’d rather NOT have them fitted.
This pic (I believe the convention is to state NMP) was from a few years ago but shows that bad stuff can lurk behind the wheel nut indicators.
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