Hello. If I drive the truck solo to the place of PMI and drive the truck back to the operating centre after. I do

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HYAMALCO
Posts: 8
Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2023 6:21 pm

Hello. If I drive the truck solo to the place of PMI and drive the truck back to the operating centre after. I do

Post by HYAMALCO »

Hello. Asking as an External TM.
If I drive the truck solo to the place of PMI and drive the truck back to the operating centre after. I do no other driving for this company, nor any other. I include it in with my TM activities invoice.

a) Do I have to insert my card?
b) I insert my card but select out of scope and that's it?
c) I insert my card select Out of Scope, but I still have to do previous 7 days manual entries?
jeffrent550
Posts: 26
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2023 9:29 am

Re: Hello. If I drive the truck solo to the place of PMI and drive the truck back to the operating centre after. I do

Post by jeffrent550 »

A, manual entries from last use of card.
I’m unsure why you think your “out of scope”
HYAMALCO
Posts: 8
Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2023 6:21 pm

Re: Hello. If I drive the truck solo to the place of PMI and drive the truck back to the operating centre after. I do

Post by HYAMALCO »

jeffrent550 wrote: Sun Sep 17, 2023 6:24 pm A, manual entries from last use of card.
I’m unsure why you think your “out of scope”
I know why it's 'Out of Scope'. Why do you think it is in scope?
jeffrent550
Posts: 26
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2023 9:29 am

Re: Hello. If I drive the truck solo to the place of PMI and drive the truck back to the operating centre after. I do

Post by jeffrent550 »

HYAMALCO wrote: Sun Sep 17, 2023 6:24 pm
jeffrent550 wrote: Sun Sep 17, 2023 6:24 pm A, manual entries from last use of card.
I’m unsure why you think your “out of scope”
I know why it's 'Out of Scope'. Why do you think it is in scope?
Ill treat it the way I treat anyone who thinks there exempt, tell me why your think your exempt from using your card, and/or why out of scope.
jeffrent550
Posts: 26
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2023 9:29 am

Re: Hello. If I drive the truck solo to the place of PMI and drive the truck back to the operating centre after. I do

Post by jeffrent550 »

HYAMALCO wrote: Sun Sep 17, 2023 6:24 pm
jeffrent550 wrote: Sun Sep 17, 2023 6:24 pm A, manual entries from last use of card.
I’m unsure why you think your “out of scope”
I know why it's 'Out of Scope'. Why do you think it is in scope?
The good thing about this site, always something learn. Everyday is a school day.
Mich1ngdo
Posts: 35
Joined: Sun Aug 13, 2023 1:19 pm

Re: Hello. If I drive the truck solo to the place of PMI and drive the truck back to the operating centre after. I do

Post by Mich1ngdo »

How far away is the pmi from the operating centre?
HYAMALCO
Posts: 8
Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2023 6:21 pm

Re: Hello. If I drive the truck solo to the place of PMI and drive the truck back to the operating centre after. I do

Post by HYAMALCO »

Mich1ngdo wrote: Sun Sep 17, 2023 6:25 pm How far away is the pmi from the operating centre?
71 miles. It's a hired unit. They want it back every other PMI.
Paullog-Jo
Posts: 77
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2023 8:47 am

Re: Hello. If I drive the truck solo to the place of PMI and drive the truck back to the operating centre after. I do

Post by Paullog-Jo »

HYAMALCO wrote: Sun Sep 17, 2023 6:25 pm
Mich1ngdo wrote: Sun Sep 17, 2023 6:25 pm How far away is the pmi from the operating centre?
71 miles. It's a hired unit. They want it back every other PMI.
71 miles - each way?
I’d be getting them to collect it and reimbursing you for the fuel too.
Mich1ngdo
Posts: 35
Joined: Sun Aug 13, 2023 1:19 pm

Re: Hello. If I drive the truck solo to the place of PMI and drive the truck back to the operating centre after. I do

Post by Mich1ngdo »

HYAMALCO wrote: Sun Sep 17, 2023 6:25 pm
Mich1ngdo wrote: Sun Sep 17, 2023 6:25 pm How far away is the pmi from the operating centre?
71 miles. It's a hired unit. They want it back every other PMI.
In scope and card in
HYAMALCO
Posts: 8
Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2023 6:21 pm

Re: Hello. If I drive the truck solo to the place of PMI and drive the truck back to the operating centre after. I do

Post by HYAMALCO »

Mich1ngdo wrote: Sun Sep 17, 2023 6:26 pm
HYAMALCO wrote: Sun Sep 17, 2023 6:25 pm
Mich1ngdo wrote: Sun Sep 17, 2023 6:25 pm How far away is the pmi from the operating centre?
71 miles. It's a hired unit. They want it back every other PMI.
In scope and card in
why?
HYAMALCO
Posts: 8
Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2023 6:21 pm

Re: Hello. If I drive the truck solo to the place of PMI and drive the truck back to the operating centre after. I do

Post by HYAMALCO »

Mich1ngdo wrote: Sun Sep 17, 2023 6:26 pm
HYAMALCO wrote: Sun Sep 17, 2023 6:25 pm
Mich1ngdo wrote: Sun Sep 17, 2023 6:25 pm How far away is the pmi from the operating centre?
71 miles. It's a hired unit. They want it back every other PMI.
In scope and card in
It's a solo 44t plated unit, not a rigid. There's no H&R. It is going bobtail purely for maintenance.
ADvattein3
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2023 6:01 pm

Re: Hello. If I drive the truck solo to the place of PMI and drive the truck back to the operating centre after. I do

Post by ADvattein3 »

Why only 7 days entries, if you have a card in you should be carrying 28 days records
Stevonto608
Posts: 17
Joined: Fri Aug 18, 2023 11:54 am

Re: Hello. If I drive the truck solo to the place of PMI and drive the truck back to the operating centre after. I do

Post by Stevonto608 »

Good question! Reluctant to answer....🤣
....given the info provided, I'm betting that B would suffice.
Stevonto608
Posts: 17
Joined: Fri Aug 18, 2023 11:54 am

Re: Hello. If I drive the truck solo to the place of PMI and drive the truck back to the operating centre after. I do

Post by Stevonto608 »

It's a maintenance journey, and you're not a driver that carries goods or passengers, therefore exemption from 561/2006 can be claimed. No need for a DQC either....
Mich1ngdo As i understand it....There is no legal limit to this exemption, in terms of distance, that I am aware of....I think it is unlimited by journey time or distance...
Mich1ngdo
Posts: 35
Joined: Sun Aug 13, 2023 1:19 pm

Re: Hello. If I drive the truck solo to the place of PMI and drive the truck back to the operating centre after. I do

Post by Mich1ngdo »

I’m sure it’s only out of scope if you work for the service provider. As he’s the tm and being rewarded it’s in scope.
jeffrent550
Posts: 26
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2023 9:29 am

Re: Hello. If I drive the truck solo to the place of PMI and drive the truck back to the operating centre after. I do

Post by jeffrent550 »

Mich1ngdo wrote: Sun Sep 17, 2023 6:30 pm I’m sure it’s only out of scope if you work for the service provider. As he’s the tm and being rewarded it’s in scope.
my thinking, there’s also a workshop card, but without looking it up I believe there is a “radius” limit from the workshop on that aswell.
ADvattein3
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2023 6:01 pm

Re: Hello. If I drive the truck solo to the place of PMI and drive the truck back to the operating centre after. I do

Post by ADvattein3 »

jeffrent550 wrote: Sun Sep 17, 2023 6:30 pm
Mich1ngdo wrote: Sun Sep 17, 2023 6:30 pm I’m sure it’s only out of scope if you work for the service provider. As he’s the tm and being rewarded it’s in scope.
my thinking, there’s also a workshop card, but without looking it up I believe there is a “radius” limit from the workshop on that aswell.
a workshop card is used for Tacho calibration etc, not driving
RpRosseyesso
Posts: 28
Joined: Sat Aug 19, 2023 10:02 am

Re: Hello. If I drive the truck solo to the place of PMI and drive the truck back to the operating centre after. I do

Post by RpRosseyesso »

I would agree with Stevonto and definitely OOS.
As for the last 28 days of records, your OOS and don't drive at any other time so 🤷
RpRosseyesso
Posts: 28
Joined: Sat Aug 19, 2023 10:02 am

Re: Hello. If I drive the truck solo to the place of PMI and drive the truck back to the operating centre after. I do

Post by RpRosseyesso »

But I'd be inclined to have four printouts for the last four weeks with your other work + rest stated for each week.
Don't overcomplicate these records as you only want to demonstrate your rest periods to any of authorities.
Too many are overthinking the situation, the truck is not earning and has no means of earning as it has no trailer and is purely going for a PMI👍
Paullog-Jo
Posts: 77
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2023 8:47 am

Re: Hello. If I drive the truck solo to the place of PMI and drive the truck back to the operating centre after. I do

Post by Paullog-Jo »

RpRosseyesso wrote: Sun Sep 17, 2023 6:32 pm But I'd be inclined to have four printouts for the last four weeks with your other work + rest stated for each week.
Don't overcomplicate these records as you only want to demonstrate your rest periods to any of authorities.
Too many are overthinking the situation, the truck is not earning and has no means of earning as it has no trailer and is purely going for a PMI👍
how do you know it’s not a rigid - complete with load area?
JILLormand
Posts: 68
Joined: Mon Aug 21, 2023 12:45 pm

Re: Hello. If I drive the truck solo to the place of PMI and drive the truck back to the operating centre after. I do

Post by JILLormand »

Paullog-Jo wrote: Sun Sep 17, 2023 6:32 pm
RpRosseyesso wrote: Sun Sep 17, 2023 6:32 pm But I'd be inclined to have four printouts for the last four weeks with your other work + rest stated for each week.
Don't overcomplicate these records as you only want to demonstrate your rest periods to any of authorities.
Too many are overthinking the situation, the truck is not earning and has no means of earning as it has no trailer and is purely going for a PMI👍
how do you know it’s not a rigid - complete with load area?
the word "solo" is the usual way of describing a tractor unit without a trailer.
Paullog-Jo
Posts: 77
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2023 8:47 am

Re: Hello. If I drive the truck solo to the place of PMI and drive the truck back to the operating centre after. I do

Post by Paullog-Jo »

JILLormand wrote: Sun Sep 17, 2023 6:33 pm
Paullog-Jo wrote: Sun Sep 17, 2023 6:32 pm
RpRosseyesso wrote: Sun Sep 17, 2023 6:32 pm But I'd be inclined to have four printouts for the last four weeks with your other work + rest stated for each week.
Don't overcomplicate these records as you only want to demonstrate your rest periods to any of authorities.
Too many are overthinking the situation, the truck is not earning and has no means of earning as it has no trailer and is purely going for a PMI👍
how do you know it’s not a rigid - complete with load area?
the word "solo" is the usual way of describing a tractor unit without a trailer.
“usual” being the operative word.
JILLormand
Posts: 68
Joined: Mon Aug 21, 2023 12:45 pm

Re: Hello. If I drive the truck solo to the place of PMI and drive the truck back to the operating centre after. I do

Post by JILLormand »

Paullog-Jo wrote: Sun Sep 17, 2023 6:33 pm
JILLormand wrote: Sun Sep 17, 2023 6:33 pm
Paullog-Jo wrote: Sun Sep 17, 2023 6:32 pm

how do you know it’s not a rigid - complete with load area?
the word "solo" is the usual way of describing a tractor unit without a trailer.
“usual” being the operative word.
whilst I'm a stickler for correct descriptions, are you not over-thinking this a little? Especially for a Friday evening 😉
Paullog-Jo
Posts: 77
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2023 8:47 am

Re: Hello. If I drive the truck solo to the place of PMI and drive the truck back to the operating centre after. I do

Post by Paullog-Jo »

JILLormand wrote: Sun Sep 17, 2023 6:33 pm
Paullog-Jo wrote: Sun Sep 17, 2023 6:33 pm
JILLormand wrote: Sun Sep 17, 2023 6:33 pm

the word "solo" is the usual way of describing a tractor unit without a trailer.
“usual” being the operative word.
whilst I'm a stickler for correct descriptions, are you not over-thinking this a little? Especially for a Friday evening 😉
maybe
But as it’s a 71 mile journey I read it as “possibly” meaning he/she went on their own 🤷‍♂️
JILLormand
Posts: 68
Joined: Mon Aug 21, 2023 12:45 pm

Re: Hello. If I drive the truck solo to the place of PMI and drive the truck back to the operating centre after. I do

Post by JILLormand »

Paullog-Jo wrote: Sun Sep 17, 2023 6:34 pm
JILLormand wrote: Sun Sep 17, 2023 6:33 pm
Paullog-Jo wrote: Sun Sep 17, 2023 6:33 pm

“usual” being the operative word.
whilst I'm a stickler for correct descriptions, are you not over-thinking this a little? Especially for a Friday evening 😉
maybe
But as it’s a 71 mile journey I read it as “possibly” meaning he/she went on their own 🤷‍♂️
71 Miles? Should definitely have considered double-manning that one 😉
RpRosseyesso
Posts: 28
Joined: Sat Aug 19, 2023 10:02 am

Re: Hello. If I drive the truck solo to the place of PMI and drive the truck back to the operating centre after. I do

Post by RpRosseyesso »

JILLormand wrote: Sun Sep 17, 2023 6:34 pm
Paullog-Jo wrote: Sun Sep 17, 2023 6:34 pm
JILLormand wrote: Sun Sep 17, 2023 6:33 pm

whilst I'm a stickler for correct descriptions, are you not over-thinking this a little? Especially for a Friday evening 😉
maybe
But as it’s a 71 mile journey I read it as “possibly” meaning he/she went on their own 🤷‍♂️
71 Miles? Should definitely have considered double-manning that one 😉
Definitely, being the operative word
Paullog-Jo
Posts: 77
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2023 8:47 am

Re: Hello. If I drive the truck solo to the place of PMI and drive the truck back to the operating centre after. I do

Post by Paullog-Jo »

JILLormand wrote: Sun Sep 17, 2023 6:34 pm
Paullog-Jo wrote: Sun Sep 17, 2023 6:34 pm
JILLormand wrote: Sun Sep 17, 2023 6:33 pm

whilst I'm a stickler for correct descriptions, are you not over-thinking this a little? Especially for a Friday evening 😉
maybe
But as it’s a 71 mile journey I read it as “possibly” meaning he/she went on their own 🤷‍♂️
71 Miles? Should definitely have considered double-manning that one 😉
Maybe not double manned but, unless he was waiting for the PMI to be completed, would he not want a lift back?
JILLormand
Posts: 68
Joined: Mon Aug 21, 2023 12:45 pm

Re: Hello. If I drive the truck solo to the place of PMI and drive the truck back to the operating centre after. I do

Post by JILLormand »

Paullog-Jo wrote: Sun Sep 17, 2023 6:35 pm
JILLormand wrote: Sun Sep 17, 2023 6:34 pm
Paullog-Jo wrote: Sun Sep 17, 2023 6:34 pm

maybe
But as it’s a 71 mile journey I read it as “possibly” meaning he/she went on their own 🤷‍♂️
71 Miles? Should definitely have considered double-manning that one 😉
Maybe not double manned but, unless he was waiting for the PMI to be completed, would he not want a lift back?
I need wine now Pullog! 😂
DenneHHerty
Posts: 11
Joined: Sun Aug 20, 2023 11:37 am

Re: Hello. If I drive the truck solo to the place of PMI and drive the truck back to the operating centre after. I do

Post by DenneHHerty »

Drivers who do not carry out ANY commercial carriage for an organization, can drive empty tacho equipped vehicles without falling in scope of EU hours.
DenneHHerty
Posts: 11
Joined: Sun Aug 20, 2023 11:37 am

Re: Hello. If I drive the truck solo to the place of PMI and drive the truck back to the operating centre after. I do

Post by DenneHHerty »

Put it OOS. No card required. Maybe do a printout with an explainer written on for record keeping.
Michalyz_Pod
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Aug 21, 2023 10:45 am

Re: Hello. If I drive the truck solo to the place of PMI and drive the truck back to the operating centre after. I do

Post by Michalyz_Pod »

DenneHHerty wrote: Sun Sep 17, 2023 6:36 pm Drivers who do not carry out ANY commercial carriage for an organization, can drive empty tacho equipped vehicles without falling in scope of EU hours.
The only truly right answer so far I reckon! 👍
RpRosseyesso
Posts: 28
Joined: Sat Aug 19, 2023 10:02 am

Re: Hello. If I drive the truck solo to the place of PMI and drive the truck back to the operating centre after. I do

Post by RpRosseyesso »

Because he said he drives the truck solo to the place of PMI 🤷 solo/bobtail is a term only used when driving a tractor unit on its own Paullog 👍
HYAMALCO
Posts: 8
Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2023 6:21 pm

Re: Hello. If I drive the truck solo to the place of PMI and drive the truck back to the operating centre after. I do

Post by HYAMALCO »

A divided response.
This is why questions like this are good.
HYAMALCO
Posts: 8
Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2023 6:21 pm

Re: Hello. If I drive the truck solo to the place of PMI and drive the truck back to the operating centre after. I do

Post by HYAMALCO »

This is a genuine question. I have a one man one truck operator and I'm looking to help him out, with his hours, by doing this PMI trip. It's on an 8 week cycle. One local and every 2nd one back at the hire base, 71 miles away.
Maybe I'm too much of a good guy and should say it's his problem...
lesvod-first
Posts: 15
Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2023 10:37 am

Re: Hello. If I drive the truck solo to the place of PMI and drive the truck back to the operating centre after. I do

Post by lesvod-first »

Should you come up in front of the TC what evidence of this journey would you want to show to legitimize the journey?
lesvod-first
Posts: 15
Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2023 10:37 am

Re: Hello. If I drive the truck solo to the place of PMI and drive the truck back to the operating centre after. I do

Post by lesvod-first »

Personally, whether it be necessary or not, I would insert card set to driving, (you are being rewarded for your services) and do manual entries. Whether necessary or not, it's about covering your ass.
lesvod-first
Posts: 15
Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2023 10:37 am

Re: Hello. If I drive the truck solo to the place of PMI and drive the truck back to the operating centre after. I do

Post by lesvod-first »

We as TM's are ultimately responsible for the entirety and short falls will / would fall on us. More is very important especially if you cover more than one operator it gives peace of mind for your other clients.
lesvod-first
Posts: 15
Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2023 10:37 am

Re: Hello. If I drive the truck solo to the place of PMI and drive the truck back to the operating centre after. I do

Post by lesvod-first »

In response to my comment, 28 days should be manual entries, unless holidays, sick leave or no other work is involved. Of which a letter of attestation can be submitted. Only from a period of Sun 00:00 hours to Sat 23:59:59 hours in any ISO week.
Bill-informer
Posts: 92
Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2023 7:45 pm

Re: Hello. If I drive the truck solo to the place of PMI and drive the truck back to the operating centre after. I do

Post by Bill-informer »

Why even complicate this by going OOS. What is the benefit?
Bill-informer
Posts: 92
Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2023 7:45 pm

Re: Hello. If I drive the truck solo to the place of PMI and drive the truck back to the operating centre after. I do

Post by Bill-informer »

If you have a licence and driver card for the journey, use it. If this all just to avoid a manual entry or record of driving and other work, then why?
RpRosseyesso
Posts: 28
Joined: Sat Aug 19, 2023 10:02 am

Re: Hello. If I drive the truck solo to the place of PMI and drive the truck back to the operating centre after. I do

Post by RpRosseyesso »

Bill-informer wrote: Sun Sep 17, 2023 6:40 pm Why even complicate this by going OOS. What is the benefit?
By going OOS Bill and still inserting his card, he's not complicating anything and actually making the whole process very easy as no manual entries are required as he doesn't usually drive and it's only incidental and not a regular occurrence.
RpRosseyesso
Posts: 28
Joined: Sat Aug 19, 2023 10:02 am

Re: Hello. If I drive the truck solo to the place of PMI and drive the truck back to the operating centre after. I do

Post by RpRosseyesso »

Bill-informer wrote: Sun Sep 17, 2023 6:40 pm If you have a licence and driver card for the journey, use it. If this all just to avoid a manual entry or record of driving and other work, then why?
I'd still carry 28 days of written records, whether that's written on print outs or attestation letters just in case and no missing mileage as a card has been inserted in the VDU 👍
Bill-informer
Posts: 92
Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2023 7:45 pm

Re: Hello. If I drive the truck solo to the place of PMI and drive the truck back to the operating centre after. I do

Post by Bill-informer »

RpRosseyesso wrote: Sun Sep 17, 2023 6:41 pm
Bill-informer wrote: Sun Sep 17, 2023 6:40 pm If you have a licence and driver card for the journey, use it. If this all just to avoid a manual entry or record of driving and other work, then why?
I'd still carry 28 days of written records, whether that's written on print outs or attestation letters just in case and no missing mileage as a card has been inserted in the VDU 👍
Same as me pal, that is why I question it. Just easier to log it.
Sahable696
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2023 11:05 am

Re: Hello. If I drive the truck solo to the place of PMI and drive the truck back to the operating centre after. I do

Post by Sahable696 »

As I see it, if it was to do a favour, then no card required. If you do this regular, then this becomes part of your job.
Sahable696
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2023 11:05 am

Re: Hello. If I drive the truck solo to the place of PMI and drive the truck back to the operating centre after. I do

Post by Sahable696 »

So by way of making this part of your work routine as its regular or expected to make these trips does become hire and reward. What you won't require is driver cpc ad you ate either traveling solo or with a trailer, it must not carry anything, do must be empty.
Bluecorn
Posts: 433
Joined: Sat Jul 10, 2021 6:58 am

Re: Hello. If I drive the truck solo to the place of PMI and drive the truck back to the operating centre after. I do

Post by Bluecorn »

HYAMALCO wrote: Sun Sep 17, 2023 6:24 pm
jeffrent550 wrote: Sun Sep 17, 2023 6:24 pm A, manual entries from last use of card.
I’m unsure why you think your “out of scope”
I know why it's 'Out of Scope'. Why do you think it is in scope?
By virtue of saying driving they tick is part of the ETM duties ( silly route but that’s another post), then it’s more likely to be seen as driving us one of your duties Change the contract and it becomes incidental
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