Can a company make a driver pay for damages to the truck?

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psaic
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2021 2:05 pm

Can a company make a driver pay for damages to the truck?

Post by psaic »

Hi all, quick question. Can a company make a driver pay for damages to the truck?
P_I
Posts: 46
Joined: Mon May 31, 2021 8:43 am

Re: Can a company make a driver pay for damages to the truck?

Post by P_I »

I do work for 2 waste companies. One charges & one dont. And believe you me, the amount of damages daily at the company that don’t is relentless daily, and you can tell this by looking at the lorries. The other company rarely has damages, and the lorries & customers are happy because of this. (Also all the drivers have been there for long time).
The company charges a percentage if was avoidable damages, which the drivers all agree too and sign before they start the job. Money’s amounts is then agreed with driver before being removed from there bonus monies.
Yaelxv
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Jul 05, 2021 1:48 pm

Re: Can a company make a driver pay for damages to the truck?

Post by Yaelxv »

P_I wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 2:09 pm I do work for 2 waste companies. One charges & one dont. And believe you me, the amount of damages daily at the company that don’t is relentless daily, and you can tell this by looking at the lorries. The other company rarely has damages, and the lorries & customers are happy because of this. (Also all the drivers have been there for long time).
The company charges a percentage if was avoidable damages, which the drivers all agree too and sign before they start the job. Money’s amounts is then agreed with driver before being removed from there bonus monies.
school teachers are not held to account if your kids fail an exam, doctors not at fault when a patient becomes ill, so why should driver be held responsible for damage unless it's a deliberate criminal act.
But there are cowboys in transport management who love pissing off drivers
Meldane
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Jun 30, 2021 8:54 am

Re: Can a company make a driver pay for damages to the truck?

Post by Meldane »

There is a difference between accidental damage and negligence, if it is in the contract then the company can deduct. Why should the company foot the bill when a driver hits something because he is on the phone for example? Unfortunately there are some drivers who simply don’t care and when operators are heavily penalised for loss ratios resulting in in some cases doubled premiums then the driver needs to take some responsibility
Amrit
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Jul 21, 2021 1:17 pm

Re: Can a company make a driver pay for damages to the truck?

Post by Amrit »

Meldane wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 2:10 pm There is a difference between accidental damage and negligence, if it is in the contract then the company can deduct. Why should the company foot the bill when a driver hits something because he is on the phone for example? Unfortunately there are some drivers who simply don’t care and when operators are heavily penalised for loss ratios resulting in in some cases doubled premiums then the driver needs to take some responsibility
the driver should be given normal company disciplinary procedure, then fired when all procedures have been exhausted.its tatty bye.
ree
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2021 7:37 am

Re: Can a company make a driver pay for damages to the truck?

Post by ree »

If you let them the bastards will have you paying to work for them take full advantage of the way things are especially at the moment and fuck them off!!
rsdancey
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2021 12:33 pm

Re: Can a company make a driver pay for damages to the truck?

Post by rsdancey »

As employee not really.some companies have it in contract to keep drivers on them toes but it's illegal.
As Sub contractor yes.
Bluecorn
Posts: 67
Joined: Sat Jul 10, 2021 6:58 am

Re: Can a company make a driver pay for damages to the truck?

Post by Bluecorn »

Not just lgv drivers. Lots of company car drivers have a fixed rate when a claim is made against the company’s insurance. There’s an investigation and a decision made. There is a fine balance between punishing the driver and encouraging them to be careful of the company’s asset.
hardam
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2021 6:01 am

Re: Can a company make a driver pay for damages to the truck?

Post by hardam »

Insurance needs to be managed as do the claims.
If an operator were to claim for everything then at renewal no insurer would touch you and if you managed to find one that did then the premium and excess would cripple you.
BUT the driver would happily walk saying fuck that your shit,
They’re supposed to be professional drivers and should be made accountable for their negligence
It needn’t be the entire amount and should be done on a fair and reasonable way
And also if they’ve done a long term without damaging anything I wouldn’t hit them for doing it wrong
But there has to be accountability for everything
kulinar
Posts: 54
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2021 3:01 am

Re: Can a company make a driver pay for damages to the truck?

Post by kulinar »

hardam wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 6:04 am Insurance needs to be managed as do the claims.
If an operator were to claim for everything then at renewal no insurer would touch you and if you managed to find one that did then the premium and excess would cripple you.
BUT the driver would happily walk saying fuck that your shit,
They’re supposed to be professional drivers and should be made accountable for their negligence
It needn’t be the entire amount and should be done on a fair and reasonable way
And also if they’ve done a long term without damaging anything I wouldn’t hit them for doing it wrong
But there has to be accountability for everything
there is accountability if they are being negligent then replace them because as the TM you are expected to manage them and I for one don't want irresponsible or negligent drivers in my operation.
hardam
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2021 6:01 am

Re: Can a company make a driver pay for damages to the truck?

Post by hardam »

kulinar wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 6:07 am there is accountability if they are being negligent then replace them because as the TM you are expected to manage them and I for one don't want irresponsible or negligent drivers in my operation.
I agree with everything you said but there are times that the reason you are outing them due to the damages they have done.
I always walk around the vehicles but I have recently had to pay out just short of £1200 to have the sat nav / stereo head unit screen replaced as a driver punched it !!
Should I pay
Should I stop that amount ??
kulinar
Posts: 54
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2021 3:01 am

Re: Can a company make a driver pay for damages to the truck?

Post by kulinar »

hardam wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 6:08 am I agree with everything you said but there are times that the reason you are outing them due to the damages they have done.
I always walk around the vehicles but I have recently had to pay out just short of £1200 to have the sat nav / stereo head unit screen replaced as a driver punched it !!
Should I pay
Should I stop that amount ??
in this case I would say you should give him the choice to pay for the damage in full or you will report him to the police and press charges against the driver and make a claim for criminal damage and costs because that was obviously done deliberately but either way, he has deliberately damaged the companies equipment and needs to be dismissed as a result of his actions.
whitemini
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2021 1:25 pm

Re: Can a company make a driver pay for damages to the truck?

Post by whitemini »

Only done by scum cowboy outfits!
The sooner it is made illegal the better
mradamski80
Posts: 35
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2021 3:44 pm

Re: Can a company make a driver pay for damages to the truck?

Post by mradamski80 »

whitemini wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 6:09 am Only done by scum cowboy outfits!
The sooner it is made illegal the better
it is already illegal. First, the driver had to agree explicitly. Getting the driver to sign a contract of employee and having some small print is insufficient. Second, if the amount deducted causes the driver’s earnings to drop below minimum wage, you are likely to be prosecuted.
Whodathunkit
Posts: 17
Joined: Mon May 31, 2021 2:09 pm

Re: Can a company make a driver pay for damages to the truck?

Post by Whodathunkit »

Any you wounder why nobody want to drive trucks and why nobody can find drivers... if he simply drove the unit through your office window because you was treating him like shit then yeah he will be walking anyway so feel free to try but out on the road shit happens jobs shite enough as it is...
Carish
Posts: 30
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2021 10:02 am

Re: Can a company make a driver pay for damages to the truck?

Post by Carish »

Yes they can if in the contract. Agency's have a agreement where they will pay for the companies property but will not cover third party. Normally any driver accident even in a car or van or lorry a driver would pay for excess.
kulinar
Posts: 54
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2021 3:01 am

Re: Can a company make a driver pay for damages to the truck?

Post by kulinar »

Carish wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 6:11 am Yes they can if in the contract. Agency's have a agreement where they will pay for the companies property but will not cover third party. Normally any driver accident even in a car or van or lorry a driver would pay for excess.
agencies have what is known as driver negligence insurance. Your statement "Normally any driver accident even in a car or van or lorry a driver would pay for excess." is technically incorrect because the excess is agreeded between the insurer and the policy holder, and the policy holder is not always the driver.
Carish
Posts: 30
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2021 10:02 am

Re: Can a company make a driver pay for damages to the truck?

Post by Carish »

kulinar wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 6:12 am agencies have what is known as driver negligence insurance. Your statement "Normally any driver accident even in a car or van or lorry a driver would pay for excess." is technically incorrect because the excess is agreeded between the insurer and the policy holder, and the policy holder is not always the driver.
no but normally the driver agrees to pay for excess like any other vehicle insurance you take out. If a company doesn't make you pay for this then that's a bonus.
kulinar
Posts: 54
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2021 3:01 am

Re: Can a company make a driver pay for damages to the truck?

Post by kulinar »

Carish wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 6:12 am no but normally the driver agrees to pay for excess like any other vehicle insurance you take out. If a company doesn't make you pay for this then that's a bonus.
I have driven class 1 since 2003 and never have I been asked or would I have agreed to pay an excess that I had no control over because the companies premium and excess is based on the history of the fleet as a whole and not me as an individual or the vehicle that I am allocated and as a driver you have no control over the vehicles the company buy, who they employ, who they are insured by or what excess they agree to which is why I consider it unfair and don't believe in charging the driver unless it is deliberate damage as I have already mentioned further up in these comments.
Carish
Posts: 30
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2021 10:02 am

Re: Can a company make a driver pay for damages to the truck?

Post by Carish »

kulinar wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 6:13 am I have driven class 1 since 2003 and never have I been asked or would I have agreed to pay an excess that I had no control over because the companies premium and excess is based on the history of the fleet as a whole and not me as an individual or the vehicle that I am allocated and as a driver you have no control over the vehicles the company buy, who they employ, who they are insured by or what excess they agree to which is why I consider it unfair and don't believe in charging the driver unless it is deliberate damage as I have already mentioned further up in these comments.
but this is your opinion. You don't agree with it doesn't mean that companies don't charge drivers for said excesses. I work with a firm that takes there bonuses away from the drivers to cover fines and damage. They might not pay for all the repairs but they will pay something. If your involved in an accident that was caused by you most companies would ask you to pay the excess, and if in your contract they will take it out of your pay. This isn't something that is beyond your control, just don't crash if you don't want to pay excess.
kulinar
Posts: 54
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2021 3:01 am

Re: Can a company make a driver pay for damages to the truck?

Post by kulinar »

Carish wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 6:14 am but this is your opinion. You don't agree with it doesn't mean that companies don't charge drivers for said excesses. I work with a firm that takes there bonuses away from the drivers to cover fines and damage. They might not pay for all the repairs but they will pay something. If your involved in an accident that was caused by you most companies would ask you to pay the excess, and if in your contract they will take it out of your pay. This isn't something that is beyond your control, just don't crash if you don't want to pay excess.
I agree it is my opinion and yes I do know there are companies out there that do charge the driver and they are the companies that I won't drive for for that very reason. The policy excess is completely beyond my control because that is decided by the company and the insurer not by me. Charging drivers just discourages them from reporting damage due to the fear of being charged it puts into drivers and the pressure it adds to the role so no wonder drivers are leaving the industry.
tomel
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2021 6:16 am

Re: Can a company make a driver pay for damages to the truck?

Post by tomel »

Don’t agree with it at all, operators know the risk when starting the operation and insurance is there for a reason. The employment process should be thorough enough to determine whether a driver is confident and able to lead your vehicles safely.
MattisBLN
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2021 9:22 am

Re: Can a company make a driver pay for damages to the truck?

Post by MattisBLN »

tomel wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 6:17 am Don’t agree with it at all, operators know the risk when starting the operation and insurance is there for a reason. The employment process should be thorough enough to determine whether a driver is confident and able to lead your vehicles safely.
If every drivers fault accident went through insurance the business wouldn’t be viable
If you bend it you mend it
Keeps you sharp 👍🏻
Or an alternative would be for every driver to have his own file on the MID then companies could make claims for driver damage and it would go on file against the driver not the company thus allowing a very fair way of seeing the good drivers from the bad prior to employment
jerha202
Posts: 18
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2021 2:20 am

Re: Can a company make a driver pay for damages to the truck?

Post by jerha202 »

Possible? Yes. To an extent i.e. to cover excess or accidents that cost less than excess. But it has to be clearly outlined in the contract of employment. Is it right thing to do? No. And good luck finding drivers with such a clause in their contract.
kulinar
Posts: 54
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2021 3:01 am

Re: Can a company make a driver pay for damages to the truck?

Post by kulinar »

jerha202 wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 6:19 am Possible? Yes. To an extent i.e. to cover excess or accidents that cost less than excess. But it has to be clearly outlined in the contract of employment. Is it right thing to do? No. And good luck finding drivers with such a clause in their contract.
problem is most people don't fully read the contract before they sign it
jerha202
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Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2021 2:20 am

Re: Can a company make a driver pay for damages to the truck?

Post by jerha202 »

kulinar wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 6:20 am problem is most people don't fully read the contract before they sign it
does it make it right though? Sneaking in terms that will affect them, with a hope that they won't read the contract lol things like that should be clearly outlined to them, if you don't whish to endup in employment tribunal.
kulinar
Posts: 54
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2021 3:01 am

Re: Can a company make a driver pay for damages to the truck?

Post by kulinar »

jerha202 wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 6:21 am does it make it right though? Sneaking in terms that will affect them, with a hope that they won't read the contract lol things like that should be clearly outlined to them, if you don't whish to endup in employment tribunal.
Personally, I don't agree with charging drivers for damage unless the damage was done deliberately.
Operators should accept that with the amount of time a vehicle is on the road, miles they cover and some of the places we ask drivers to take the vehicle that was selected by the operator but is not always the most suitable vehicle for the location but they send it anyway because it's what they have, they are always going to get a certain amount of damage to the vehicle and that's why they have insurances to pay for accident damage.
noR3k
Posts: 61
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2021 10:08 am

Re: Can a company make a driver pay for damages to the truck?

Post by noR3k »

kulinar wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 6:22 am Personally, I don't agree with charging drivers for damage unless the damage was done deliberately.
Operators should accept that with the amount of time a vehicle is on the road, miles they cover and some of the places we ask drivers to take the vehicle that was selected by the operator but is not always the most suitable vehicle for the location but they send it anyway because it's what they have, they are always going to get a certain amount of damage to the vehicle and that's why they have insurances to pay for accident damage.
I understand that it is not nice to take it from the driver and the haulier has to bear the brunt of the responsibility. However, it is in the contracts of my drivers that I may (at management discretion) deduct damages up to the value of the excess, caused by negligence or carelessness. I have not had to make any deductions yet, but it serves to make the drivers a lot more careful if they think they may get held responsible.
It serves as a valuable deterrent.
kulinar
Posts: 54
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2021 3:01 am

Re: Can a company make a driver pay for damages to the truck?

Post by kulinar »

noR3k wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 6:22 am I understand that it is not nice to take it from the driver and the haulier has to bear the brunt of the responsibility. However, it is in the contracts of my drivers that I may (at management discretion) deduct damages up to the value of the excess, caused by negligence or carelessness. I have not had to make any deductions yet, but it serves to make the drivers a lot more careful if they think they may get held responsible.
It serves as a valuable deterrent.
do you make the drivers aware of how much the excess is?
I have heard of some fleets excesses being £10k and I don't think there are many drivers that could afford to pay that sort of money out and they can't take out driver negligence insurance on themselves in most cases as it's specialist insurance usually only available to agencies.
noR3k
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Re: Can a company make a driver pay for damages to the truck?

Post by noR3k »

kulinar wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 6:23 am do you make the drivers aware of how much the excess is?
I have heard of some fleets excesses being £10k and I don't think there are many drivers that could afford to pay that sort of money out and they can't take out driver negligence insurance on themselves in most cases as it's specialist insurance usually only available to agencies.
wow, my excess is £500 and yes they are informed
kulinar
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Re: Can a company make a driver pay for damages to the truck?

Post by kulinar »

noR3k wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 6:24 am wow, my excess is £500 and yes they are informed
at least your's is a reasonable amount and you let them know how much they could be liable for.
primehalo
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Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2021 10:25 am

Re: Can a company make a driver pay for damages to the truck?

Post by primehalo »

kulinar wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 6:25 am at least your's is a reasonable amount and you let them know how much they could be liable for.
i used to have a driver who would knock his mirrors off for fun. Not much about £200 a time, but when we are talking at least one a week soon adds up. I had enough one day and charged him. Funny he never smashed another one fot 12months.
kulinar
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Re: Can a company make a driver pay for damages to the truck?

Post by kulinar »

primehalo wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 6:25 am i used to have a driver who would knock his mirrors off for fun. Not much about £200 a time, but when we are talking at least one a week soon adds up. I had enough one day and charged him. Funny he never smashed another one fot 12months.
how long did this go on for before you charged him
primehalo
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Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2021 10:25 am

Re: Can a company make a driver pay for damages to the truck?

Post by primehalo »

kulinar wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 6:26 am how long did this go on for before you charged him
about 5th/6th time.
kulinar
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Re: Can a company make a driver pay for damages to the truck?

Post by kulinar »

primehalo wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 6:26 am about 5th/6th time.
to be fair I don't think I would of kept him on after the 3rd time at a rate of 1 a week
steadwell
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Joined: Sat Jun 26, 2021 2:58 am

Re: Can a company make a driver pay for damages to the truck?

Post by steadwell »

My advice is to be very careful going down this route at the moment as there are plenty of options out there for drivers to move on
Crizzo
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Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2021 12:57 pm

Re: Can a company make a driver pay for damages to the truck?

Post by Crizzo »

Is it in the drivers contract? If not then no. If yes then you can’t allow the drivers earnings fall below national minimum wage
Zinnn
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Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2021 11:14 am

Re: Can a company make a driver pay for damages to the truck?

Post by Zinnn »

I took on an employed TM role with a company which did this.... once I realised they were doing this ( 3 weeks )I walked from the job. It just didn't sit right with me.
patz
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2021 6:30 am

Re: Can a company make a driver pay for damages to the truck?

Post by patz »

I nearly signed up for an agency recently until I saw the clause “any accident under £500 if at fault deducted from wages”
Hence didn’t bother with them
darrich
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Jun 16, 2021 9:47 am

Re: Can a company make a driver pay for damages to the truck?

Post by darrich »

You cannot force a driver to pay for damages not even if it is in his contract and don’t dare take it of his wages that’s a whole load of trouble
CD130
Posts: 17
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2021 3:42 pm

Re: Can a company make a driver pay for damages to the truck?

Post by CD130 »

In my experience no.
I had a driver take a drill and fit some “brackets” to a brand new £250K truck last year. We legally wasn’t allowed to make him pay for it.
KaileyT
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Joined: Mon May 31, 2021 12:45 pm

Re: Can a company make a driver pay for damages to the truck?

Post by KaileyT »

CD130 wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 6:35 am In my experience no.
I had a driver take a drill and fit some “brackets” to a brand new £250K truck last year. We legally wasn’t allowed to make him pay for it.
£250k truck? What the hell was you buying?
There is a difference between what I think was asked and accidentally damaged as that was intentional!
CD130
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Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2021 3:42 pm

Re: Can a company make a driver pay for damages to the truck?

Post by CD130 »

KaileyT wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 6:36 am £250k truck? What the hell was you buying?
There is a difference between what I think was asked and accidentally damaged as that was intentional!
we transport day old chicks so the truck has to have some fancy bits of kit on it. It’s still a driver damaging truck. The point is even after that we couldn’t get the driver to cough up the bill to put it right.
Jphammer
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Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2021 1:51 am

Re: Can a company make a driver pay for damages to the truck?

Post by Jphammer »

Wages must always stay above minimum wage or expect a call from HMRC. Even when it is in the contract it can be argued in court if the company is insured against the damage that the company is expecting to pay for the damage, as such a good council would be able to prove that it is insured and thus expecting to pay. I don’t remember the details but it happened in another industry think warehouse or builder, anyway long story short the court ruled the worker didn’t have to pay.
emmy.dier
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Joined: Mon May 31, 2021 8:30 am

Re: Can a company make a driver pay for damages to the truck?

Post by emmy.dier »

Jphammer wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 6:37 am Wages must always stay above minimum wage or expect a call from HMRC. Even when it is in the contract it can be argued in court if the company is insured against the damage that the company is expecting to pay for the damage, as such a good council would be able to prove that it is insured and thus expecting to pay. I don’t remember the details but it happened in another industry think warehouse or builder, anyway long story short the court ruled the worker didn’t have to pay.
In fairness the last two months it’s become a drivers market. Drivers now have the upper hand totally and all such practices will stop, drivers will virtually be choosing their own pay and setting the standards for their own terms and conditions. Drivers now have the upper hand
aeneas1
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Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2021 1:15 pm

Re: Can a company make a driver pay for damages to the truck?

Post by aeneas1 »

The company will probably loose in court if the employee won’t agree and the company stop it from the drivers wages
Lumpy Burgertushie
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Joined: Mon May 31, 2021 9:04 am

Re: Can a company make a driver pay for damages to the truck?

Post by Lumpy Burgertushie »

More a HR issue. Will depend on the contract you have in place.
EVO_VV
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2021 11:11 am

Re: Can a company make a driver pay for damages to the truck?

Post by EVO_VV »

If damage is less than the insurance excess, then we’d ask them to pay. But only if driver at fault. We’d never ask a driver to pay more than the excess.
emmy.dier
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon May 31, 2021 8:30 am

Re: Can a company make a driver pay for damages to the truck?

Post by emmy.dier »

If it’s in your contract of employment and you have signed to accept it then yes of course
mradamski80
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Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2021 3:44 pm

Re: Can a company make a driver pay for damages to the truck?

Post by mradamski80 »

emmy.dier wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 6:40 am If it’s in your contract of employment and you have signed to accept it then yes of course
Unlikely to hold out in court if it something slipped into the formality of a contract. An employment tribunal will be looking for something more robust, like agreeing to make the payment after the event. Then you need to think of minimum wage. If the deduction causes the driver to have their earnings drop below minimum wage fir the pay period, you are likely to be prosecuted. Now you also run the risk of losing repute with the TC.
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