We received a PG9 due to the trailers brake actuator being unsecure. The trailer is not ours as we are a unit only
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We received a PG9 due to the trailers brake actuator being unsecure. The trailer is not ours as we are a unit only
We received a PG9 due to the trailers brake actuator being unsecure. The trailer is not ours as we are a unit only sub contractor. The PG9 is to us not the company who owns the trailer. Is this right? I'd argue that a brake actuator is not really something you'd spot on a walk round check. But we're pulling it so is it solely our responsibility?
Re: We received a PG9 due to the trailers brake actuator being unsecure. The trailer is not ours as we are a unit only
The responsibility for the trailer is the hauliers. As trailers don’t technically have to be declared on an o licence they are linked to the tractor unit (as far as I understand it) it will be you that will have to present the trailer at the DVSA testing station to receive the PG10 - unless you fixed it at site and had it lifted there and then
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Re: We received a PG9 due to the trailers brake actuator being unsecure. The trailer is not ours as we are a unit only
The company who own it are another haulage firm by the way. They sorted the repair out straight away and they will be paying us the £80 fine but it still goes against us and I wasn't sure where we stood with it.GraemKixx wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 3:59 pm The responsibility for the trailer is the hauliers. As trailers don’t technically have to be declared on an o licence they are linked to the tractor unit (as far as I understand it) it will be you that will have to present the trailer at the DVSA testing station to receive the PG10 - unless you fixed it at site and had it lifted there and then
Re: We received a PG9 due to the trailers brake actuator being unsecure. The trailer is not ours as we are a unit only
unfortunately your vehicle and driver are pulling it on your O Licence so it’s your responsibility. There was a previous thread about trailer mot discs being removed and that has an impact on hauliers like yourselves, that’s similar to the PMI although you are not responsible for the safety inspections you would be liable if you were stopped and they hadn’t been inspected.10jamenthe wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 4:00 pmThe company who own it are another haulage firm by the way. They sorted the repair out straight away and they will be paying us the £80 fine but it still goes against us and I wasn't sure where we stood with it.GraemKixx wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 3:59 pm The responsibility for the trailer is the hauliers. As trailers don’t technically have to be declared on an o licence they are linked to the tractor unit (as far as I understand it) it will be you that will have to present the trailer at the DVSA testing station to receive the PG10 - unless you fixed it at site and had it lifted there and then
Seems unfair in the main but I think it was to stop companies just pulling any trailer and neither company taking any responsibility
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Re: We received a PG9 due to the trailers brake actuator being unsecure. The trailer is not ours as we are a unit only
Makes sense Mate, that's what I thought. We're pulling it so we're responsible. CheersGraemKixx wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 4:00 pmunfortunately your vehicle and driver are pulling it on your O Licence so it’s your responsibility. There was a previous thread about trailer mot discs being removed and that has an impact on hauliers like yourselves, that’s similar to the PMI although you are not responsible for the safety inspections you would be liable if you were stopped and they hadn’t been inspected.10jamenthe wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 4:00 pmThe company who own it are another haulage firm by the way. They sorted the repair out straight away and they will be paying us the £80 fine but it still goes against us and I wasn't sure where we stood with it.GraemKixx wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 3:59 pm The responsibility for the trailer is the hauliers. As trailers don’t technically have to be declared on an o licence they are linked to the tractor unit (as far as I understand it) it will be you that will have to present the trailer at the DVSA testing station to receive the PG10 - unless you fixed it at site and had it lifted there and then
Seems unfair in the main but I think it was to stop companies just pulling any trailer and neither company taking any responsibility
Re: We received a PG9 due to the trailers brake actuator being unsecure. The trailer is not ours as we are a unit only
It wasn't a fine, it was an immobilization release feeGraemKixx wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 4:00 pmunfortunately your vehicle and driver are pulling it on your O Licence so it’s your responsibility. There was a previous thread about trailer mot discs being removed and that has an impact on hauliers like yourselves, that’s similar to the PMI although you are not responsible for the safety inspections you would be liable if you were stopped and they hadn’t been inspected.10jamenthe wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 4:00 pmThe company who own it are another haulage firm by the way. They sorted the repair out straight away and they will be paying us the £80 fine but it still goes against us and I wasn't sure where we stood with it.GraemKixx wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 3:59 pm The responsibility for the trailer is the hauliers. As trailers don’t technically have to be declared on an o licence they are linked to the tractor unit (as far as I understand it) it will be you that will have to present the trailer at the DVSA testing station to receive the PG10 - unless you fixed it at site and had it lifted there and then
Seems unfair in the main but I think it was to stop companies just pulling any trailer and neither company taking any responsibility
Re: We received a PG9 due to the trailers brake actuator being unsecure. The trailer is not ours as we are a unit only
is that the clamping fine until it’s repaired?LeoHear wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 4:01 pmIt wasn't a fine, it was an immobilization release feeGraemKixx wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 4:00 pmunfortunately your vehicle and driver are pulling it on your O Licence so it’s your responsibility. There was a previous thread about trailer mot discs being removed and that has an impact on hauliers like yourselves, that’s similar to the PMI although you are not responsible for the safety inspections you would be liable if you were stopped and they hadn’t been inspected.10jamenthe wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 4:00 pm
The company who own it are another haulage firm by the way. They sorted the repair out straight away and they will be paying us the £80 fine but it still goes against us and I wasn't sure where we stood with it.
Seems unfair in the main but I think it was to stop companies just pulling any trailer and neither company taking any responsibility
Re: We received a PG9 due to the trailers brake actuator being unsecure. The trailer is not ours as we are a unit only
yesGraemKixx wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 4:02 pmis that the clamping fine until it’s repaired?LeoHear wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 4:01 pmIt wasn't a fine, it was an immobilization release feeGraemKixx wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 4:00 pm
unfortunately your vehicle and driver are pulling it on your O Licence so it’s your responsibility. There was a previous thread about trailer mot discs being removed and that has an impact on hauliers like yourselves, that’s similar to the PMI although you are not responsible for the safety inspections you would be liable if you were stopped and they hadn’t been inspected.
Seems unfair in the main but I think it was to stop companies just pulling any trailer and neither company taking any responsibility
Re: We received a PG9 due to the trailers brake actuator being unsecure. The trailer is not ours as we are a unit only
I was at the DVSA seminar in Kirkham in April and was surprised when they told us that if they have to get a third party to release the vehicle following repair the DVSA actually lose money on that fee
Re: We received a PG9 due to the trailers brake actuator being unsecure. The trailer is not ours as we are a unit only
Must have been an immediate PG9 for that to happen, and would have been released and prohibition cleared upon rectification
Re: We received a PG9 due to the trailers brake actuator being unsecure. The trailer is not ours as we are a unit only
Re: We received a PG9 due to the trailers brake actuator being unsecure. The trailer is not ours as we are a unit only
Not quite true. Only a Vehicle Examiner can release a vehicle from an immediate prohibition and for drivers hours prohibitions usually if the prohibition expires out of hours
Re: We received a PG9 due to the trailers brake actuator being unsecure. The trailer is not ours as we are a unit only
Re: We received a PG9 due to the trailers brake actuator being unsecure. The trailer is not ours as we are a unit only
yes sorry it was for drivers hours as they knew the time the driver would be free to continue and in this instance if was something like 3am let’s say. He went on to say exactly what you just did commented that if it was a repair they would remain immobilized until an examiner was able to re attend and assess
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Re: We received a PG9 due to the trailers brake actuator being unsecure. The trailer is not ours as we are a unit only
An operator should have a system of ‘First Use Checks’. A first use check is a full PMI to ensure roadworthiness before you become responsible for it
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Re: We received a PG9 due to the trailers brake actuator being unsecure. The trailer is not ours as we are a unit only
This is an important point a lot of operators miss. If you borrow, rent, use a trailer, it’s your responsibility and you get any PG9 etc that it attracts.
As a haulier I found the best option was have the trailer delivered to me (not my problem on the road) then have my workshop do a full first use inspection, document it etc and then we’d use the trailer.
As a haulier I found the best option was have the trailer delivered to me (not my problem on the road) then have my workshop do a full first use inspection, document it etc and then we’d use the trailer.
Re: We received a PG9 due to the trailers brake actuator being unsecure. The trailer is not ours as we are a unit only
Can be difficult if you are traction only running over UK or Europe delivering trailers from one depot to another you would have to be ahead of the game with requesting paperwork and then you get a trailer change when you get to the collection depotmartellene8 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 4:06 pm This is an important point a lot of operators miss. If you borrow, rent, use a trailer, it’s your responsibility and you get any PG9 etc that it attracts.
As a haulier I found the best option was have the trailer delivered to me (not my problem on the road) then have my workshop do a full first use inspection, document it etc and then we’d use the trailer.
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Re: We received a PG9 due to the trailers brake actuator being unsecure. The trailer is not ours as we are a unit only
I suppose I’d be condescending and ask you how important your O Licence is to youGraemKixx wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 4:07 pmCan be difficult if you are traction only running over UK or Europe delivering trailers from one depot to another you would have to be ahead of the game with requesting paperwork and then you get a trailer change when you get to the collection depotmartellene8 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 4:06 pm This is an important point a lot of operators miss. If you borrow, rent, use a trailer, it’s your responsibility and you get any PG9 etc that it attracts.
As a haulier I found the best option was have the trailer delivered to me (not my problem on the road) then have my workshop do a full first use inspection, document it etc and then we’d use the trailer.
I fully understand the issues, all you can do is everything you can, but even getting an inspection report immediately before doesn’t mean anything, some places would just fill one in
Re: We received a PG9 due to the trailers brake actuator being unsecure. The trailer is not ours as we are a unit only
two can play your condescending gamemartellene8 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 4:07 pmI suppose I’d be condescending and ask you how important your O Licence is to youGraemKixx wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 4:07 pmCan be difficult if you are traction only running over UK or Europe delivering trailers from one depot to another you would have to be ahead of the game with requesting paperwork and then you get a trailer change when you get to the collection depotmartellene8 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 4:06 pm This is an important point a lot of operators miss. If you borrow, rent, use a trailer, it’s your responsibility and you get any PG9 etc that it attracts.
As a haulier I found the best option was have the trailer delivered to me (not my problem on the road) then have my workshop do a full first use inspection, document it etc and then we’d use the trailer.
I fully understand the issues, all you can do is everything you can, but even getting an inspection report immediately before doesn’t mean anything, some places would just fill one in
I get your point but theory and reality are usually worlds apart in haulage game as I’m sure deep deep deep down you would agree!
Re: We received a PG9 due to the trailers brake actuator being unsecure. The trailer is not ours as we are a unit only
in answer to how important is the O licence - if I got taken to see the lovely TC and I could argue I was pulling a trailer that had a valid MOT, was inside the safety inspection timeframe and the driver had carried out a drivers check then I don’t believe I would be at fault bcos I hadn’t carried out a first use inspection.martellene8 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 4:07 pmI suppose I’d be condescending and ask you how important your O Licence is to youGraemKixx wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 4:07 pmCan be difficult if you are traction only running over UK or Europe delivering trailers from one depot to another you would have to be ahead of the game with requesting paperwork and then you get a trailer change when you get to the collection depotmartellene8 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 4:06 pm This is an important point a lot of operators miss. If you borrow, rent, use a trailer, it’s your responsibility and you get any PG9 etc that it attracts.
As a haulier I found the best option was have the trailer delivered to me (not my problem on the road) then have my workshop do a full first use inspection, document it etc and then we’d use the trailer.
I fully understand the issues, all you can do is everything you can, but even getting an inspection report immediately before doesn’t mean anything, some places would just fill one in
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Re: We received a PG9 due to the trailers brake actuator being unsecure. The trailer is not ours as we are a unit only
I would agree. It’s a compromise isn’t it? Risk verses profit etc. You can do a lot to protect yourself but it’s never going to be foolproof.GraemKixx wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 4:08 pmin answer to how important is the O licence - if I got taken to see the lovely TC and I could argue I was pulling a trailer that had a valid MOT, was inside the safety inspection timeframe and the driver had carried out a drivers check then I don’t believe I would be at fault bcos I hadn’t carried out a first use inspection.martellene8 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 4:07 pmI suppose I’d be condescending and ask you how important your O Licence is to you
I fully understand the issues, all you can do is everything you can, but even getting an inspection report immediately before doesn’t mean anything, some places would just fill one in
Re: We received a PG9 due to the trailers brake actuator being unsecure. The trailer is not ours as we are a unit only
yeah without a shadow of doubt and ultimately we have to work to budgets delivery times and drivers hours it’s a lot to balance and the easy one there is to not bother with the compliance hence the reason as auditors and compliance companies we are all so busy!martellene8 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 4:09 pmI would agree. It’s a compromise isn’t it? Risk verses profit etc. You can do a lot to protect yourself but it’s never going to be foolproof.GraemKixx wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 4:08 pmin answer to how important is the O licence - if I got taken to see the lovely TC and I could argue I was pulling a trailer that had a valid MOT, was inside the safety inspection timeframe and the driver had carried out a drivers check then I don’t believe I would be at fault bcos I hadn’t carried out a first use inspection.martellene8 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 4:07 pm
I suppose I’d be condescending and ask you how important your O Licence is to you
I fully understand the issues, all you can do is everything you can, but even getting an inspection report immediately before doesn’t mean anything, some places would just fill one in
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Re: We received a PG9 due to the trailers brake actuator being unsecure. The trailer is not ours as we are a unit only
I wouldn’t be quite as confident as you. Of course you are right, in front of a TC you’d have plenty of answers, and mitigating circumstances.GraemKixx wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 4:09 pmyeah without a shadow of doubt and ultimately we have to work to budgets delivery times and drivers hours it’s a lot to balance and the easy one there is to not bother with the compliance hence the reason as auditors and compliance companies we are all so busy!martellene8 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 4:09 pmI would agree. It’s a compromise isn’t it? Risk verses profit etc. You can do a lot to protect yourself but it’s never going to be foolproof.GraemKixx wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 4:08 pm
in answer to how important is the O licence - if I got taken to see the lovely TC and I could argue I was pulling a trailer that had a valid MOT, was inside the safety inspection timeframe and the driver had carried out a drivers check then I don’t believe I would be at fault bcos I hadn’t carried out a first use inspection.
I’m sure you have read this but page 16 onwards plus throughout the book there are plenty of mentions of ‘first use inspections’.
https://www.safedrivingforlife.info/
Re: We received a PG9 due to the trailers brake actuator being unsecure. The trailer is not ours as we are a unit only
this states that it is best practice for the trailer owner to provide SI and first use but you was referring to you doing a first use inspection when you collect a trailer (I’m specifically referring to traction only here and not hiring)martellene8 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 4:10 pmI wouldn’t be quite as confident as you. Of course you are right, in front of a TC you’d have plenty of answers, and mitigating circumstances.GraemKixx wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 4:09 pmyeah without a shadow of doubt and ultimately we have to work to budgets delivery times and drivers hours it’s a lot to balance and the easy one there is to not bother with the compliance hence the reason as auditors and compliance companies we are all so busy!martellene8 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 4:09 pm
I would agree. It’s a compromise isn’t it? Risk verses profit etc. You can do a lot to protect yourself but it’s never going to be foolproof.
I’m sure you have read this but page 16 onwards plus throughout the book there are plenty of mentions of ‘first use inspections’.
https://www.safedrivingforlife.info/
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Re: We received a PG9 due to the trailers brake actuator being unsecure. The trailer is not ours as we are a unit only
If you read elsewhere in the same guide it highlights the importance of first use - and my opinions are based on a hauliers point of view. Traction or hire - you get the PG9, you get the OCRS points no matter what that guide says about traction.GraemKixx wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 4:11 pmthis states that it is best practice for the trailer owner to provide SI and first use but you was referring to you doing a first use inspection when you collect a trailer (I’m specifically referring to traction only here and not hiring)martellene8 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 4:10 pmI wouldn’t be quite as confident as you. Of course you are right, in front of a TC you’d have plenty of answers, and mitigating circumstances.GraemKixx wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 4:09 pm
yeah without a shadow of doubt and ultimately we have to work to budgets delivery times and drivers hours it’s a lot to balance and the easy one there is to not bother with the compliance hence the reason as auditors and compliance companies we are all so busy!
I’m sure you have read this but page 16 onwards plus throughout the book there are plenty of mentions of ‘first use inspections’.
https://www.safedrivingforlife.info/
I used to be involved in collecting/returning hire trailers for service/inspection and MOT. It was a nightmare and after a few months I dropped it, just too much risk for my O Licence.
Re: We received a PG9 due to the trailers brake actuator being unsecure. The trailer is not ours as we are a unit only
I appreciate what your saying and it would be ideal to complete your own inspections I agreemartellene8 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 4:12 pmIf you read elsewhere in the same guide it highlights the importance of first use - and my opinions are based on a hauliers point of view. Traction or hire - you get the PG9, you get the OCRS points no matter what that guide says about traction.GraemKixx wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 4:11 pmthis states that it is best practice for the trailer owner to provide SI and first use but you was referring to you doing a first use inspection when you collect a trailer (I’m specifically referring to traction only here and not hiring)martellene8 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 4:10 pm
I wouldn’t be quite as confident as you. Of course you are right, in front of a TC you’d have plenty of answers, and mitigating circumstances.
I’m sure you have read this but page 16 onwards plus throughout the book there are plenty of mentions of ‘first use inspections’.
https://www.safedrivingforlife.info/
I used to be involved in collecting/returning hire trailers for service/inspection and MOT. It was a nightmare and after a few months I dropped it, just too much risk for my O Licence.
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Re: We received a PG9 due to the trailers brake actuator being unsecure. The trailer is not ours as we are a unit only
Surely the practicality of this is unworkable with traction only. I can't see Amazon, tnt or any other own trailer operations using a hauiler that wanted this information. Good driver walk rounds are the only reasonable weapon surely?
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Re: We received a PG9 due to the trailers brake actuator being unsecure. The trailer is not ours as we are a unit only
As the OP has shown, a walk around doesn’t detect major issues likely to result in an immediate PG9.yusulter40 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 4:13 pm Surely the practicality of this is unworkable with traction only. I can't see Amazon, tnt or any other own trailer operations using a hauiler that wanted this information. Good driver walk rounds are the only reasonable weapon surely?
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Re: We received a PG9 due to the trailers brake actuator being unsecure. The trailer is not ours as we are a unit only
Sorry OP?martellene8 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 4:13 pmAs the OP has shown, a walk around doesn’t detect major issues likely to result in an immediate PG9.yusulter40 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 4:13 pm Surely the practicality of this is unworkable with traction only. I can't see Amazon, tnt or any other own trailer operations using a hauiler that wanted this information. Good driver walk rounds are the only reasonable weapon surely?
Re: We received a PG9 due to the trailers brake actuator being unsecure. The trailer is not ours as we are a unit only
original postyusulter40 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 4:14 pmSorry OP?martellene8 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 4:13 pmAs the OP has shown, a walk around doesn’t detect major issues likely to result in an immediate PG9.yusulter40 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 4:13 pm Surely the practicality of this is unworkable with traction only. I can't see Amazon, tnt or any other own trailer operations using a hauiler that wanted this information. Good driver walk rounds are the only reasonable weapon surely?
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Re: We received a PG9 due to the trailers brake actuator being unsecure. The trailer is not ours as we are a unit only
GraemKixx wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 4:14 pmoriginal postyusulter40 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 4:14 pmSorry OP?martellene8 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 4:13 pm
As the OP has shown, a walk around doesn’t detect major issues likely to result in an immediate PG9.
Re: We received a PG9 due to the trailers brake actuator being unsecure. The trailer is not ours as we are a unit only
just wondering if DVSA wanted to know what have you done to make sure is not happening again. If they ask you to sent them something…
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