Why do so many companies use agencies? Instead of paying a decent wage to their drivers. Surely then you aren’t paying a

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BraceTa
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:05 am

Why do so many companies use agencies? Instead of paying a decent wage to their drivers. Surely then you aren’t paying a

Post by BraceTa »

Why do so many companies use agencies? Instead of paying a decent wage to their drivers. Surely then you aren’t paying a commission to an agency that in all fairness doesn’t need to be there ?
Zerpoten
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:06 am

Re: Why do so many companies use agencies? Instead of paying a decent wage to their drivers. Surely then you aren’t payi

Post by Zerpoten »

No over heads , insurance, sick pay or holidays ,, and will promise a 5 year all singing, all dancing vet min on hiring
Joke m8
Agencies Kop £28:50 an hour
More than double , industries in a shit state & going to get worse
Tipsil
Posts: 2
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2021 2:06 pm

Re: Why do so many companies use agencies? Instead of paying a decent wage to their drivers. Surely then you aren’t payi

Post by Tipsil »

I've no intention of leaving the agency for the next couple of year's, umbrella pay, less csa, less tax, less Ni, I actually have cash in my pocket, which I didn't when earning £30k when employed, I get to choose when I work, I don't need to book my leave a year in advance, I don't need to explain myself to anyone because I've an appointment, and in the last 11 months i've not had a day without work, unless it's been my choice.
Crosen
Posts: 2
Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2021 7:45 am

Re: Why do so many companies use agencies? Instead of paying a decent wage to their drivers. Surely then you aren’t payi

Post by Crosen »

Because once you employ somebody you've to keep employing them when work goes quiet and you've to pay them holiday pay
Iamati
Posts: 14
Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2021 6:07 am

Re: Why do so many companies use agencies? Instead of paying a decent wage to their drivers. Surely then you aren’t payi

Post by Iamati »

Crosen wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:11 am Because once you employ somebody you've to keep employing them when work goes quiet and you've to pay them holiday pay
well of course but the cost of that is built into the rate charged.
Formula is something like this;
Pay rate ×1.25/profit margin/100
Iamati
Posts: 14
Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2021 6:07 am

Re: Why do so many companies use agencies? Instead of paying a decent wage to their drivers. Surely then you aren’t payi

Post by Iamati »

Crosen wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:11 am Because once you employ somebody you've to keep employing them when work goes quiet and you've to pay them holiday pay
so the companies ultimately pay the holiday pay as part of their bill...expressed as a percentage.
Windqua
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:14 am

Re: Why do so many companies use agencies? Instead of paying a decent wage to their drivers. Surely then you aren’t payi

Post by Windqua »

Crosen wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:11 am Because once you employ somebody you've to keep employing them when work goes quiet and you've to pay them holiday pay
of coarse, that’s why the rate an agency charges is so much higher, it’s plus wage + holiday + pension then an admin fee and then the agency’s percentage on top but at the end of the day you are just filling a gap for holidays or peaks in business
Iamati
Posts: 14
Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2021 6:07 am

Re: Why do so many companies use agencies? Instead of paying a decent wage to their drivers. Surely then you aren’t payi

Post by Iamati »

Crosen wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:11 am Because once you employ somebody you've to keep employing them when work goes quiet and you've to pay them holiday pay
Lol...well it used to be that way but some companies use Agency willy nilly due to head count restrictions
It's very political at times
Accountants love it...one invoice
Was a big selling point when I worked in that game
RozWil
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Joined: Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:36 am

Re: Why do so many companies use agencies? Instead of paying a decent wage to their drivers. Surely then you aren’t payi

Post by RozWil »

Might be too do with national insurence, tax, holiday pay, sick pay,pension etc etc etc agensie they pay an invoice that's it. Alot more to paye then alot know. If a person is paid £100 by employer, then add all the other things I've said into that it's way higher.
Iamati
Posts: 14
Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2021 6:07 am

Re: Why do so many companies use agencies? Instead of paying a decent wage to their drivers. Surely then you aren’t payi

Post by Iamati »

RozWil wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:38 am Might be too do with national insurence, tax, holiday pay, sick pay,pension etc etc etc agensie they pay an invoice that's it. Alot more to paye then alot know. If a person is paid £100 by employer, then add all the other things I've said into that it's way higher.
that is built in to the price quoted for PAYE drivers and then paid by the Agency to HMRC
RozWil
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:36 am

Re: Why do so many companies use agencies? Instead of paying a decent wage to their drivers. Surely then you aren’t payi

Post by RozWil »

RozWil wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:38 am Might be too do with national insurence, tax, holiday pay, sick pay,pension etc etc etc agensie they pay an invoice that's it. Alot more to paye then alot know. If a person is paid £100 by employer, then add all the other things I've said into that it's way higher.
yes it's called a business, that's how they all work lol, but it's still less money for the employer to pay the agensie then a full time worker.
Iamati
Posts: 14
Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2021 6:07 am

Re: Why do so many companies use agencies? Instead of paying a decent wage to their drivers. Surely then you aren’t payi

Post by Iamati »

RozWil wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:38 am Might be too do with national insurence, tax, holiday pay, sick pay,pension etc etc etc agensie they pay an invoice that's it. Alot more to paye then alot know. If a person is paid £100 by employer, then add all the other things I've said into that it's way higher.
absolutely, lot of hidden costs with employing folk, but as time has has gone on, more of these costs have become payable by the agency, which I guess is the reason many want to you to be SE and Ltd and paid by an umberella. Proper swizz!!
RozWil
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:36 am

Re: Why do so many companies use agencies? Instead of paying a decent wage to their drivers. Surely then you aren’t payi

Post by RozWil »

RozWil wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:38 am Might be too do with national insurence, tax, holiday pay, sick pay,pension etc etc etc agensie they pay an invoice that's it. Alot more to paye then alot know. If a person is paid £100 by employer, then add all the other things I've said into that it's way higher.
yep u nailed it, they then want you to do the same as the employer did from start, basically you go Ltd etc and you have to pay it all and the admin of doing so.
RozWil
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:36 am

Re: Why do so many companies use agencies? Instead of paying a decent wage to their drivers. Surely then you aren’t payi

Post by RozWil »

RozWil wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:38 am Might be too do with national insurence, tax, holiday pay, sick pay,pension etc etc etc agensie they pay an invoice that's it. Alot more to paye then alot know. If a person is paid £100 by employer, then add all the other things I've said into that it's way higher.
yes started few years back when they started to realise they could make fake umbrella company's and work for them claiming vat etc back, less tax etc which suited agensie as the drivers looked to be making more from claiming tax back and left more profit overall for the agensie. IR35 soon sorted that and now look what's happened
Wickediati
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:49 am

Re: Why do so many companies use agencies? Instead of paying a decent wage to their drivers. Surely then you aren’t payi

Post by Wickediati »

RozWil wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:38 am Might be too do with national insurence, tax, holiday pay, sick pay,pension etc etc etc agensie they pay an invoice that's it. Alot more to paye then alot know. If a person is paid £100 by employer, then add all the other things I've said into that it's way higher.
of course it is because the agency pay the driver out of the money from the contract and the money from the money tree. What is paid to the agency includes enough to cover all costs the agency will encounter plus additional for their service so how is that less than employing direct
Lolade
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2021 9:37 am

Re: Why do so many companies use agencies? Instead of paying a decent wage to their drivers. Surely then you aren’t payi

Post by Lolade »

There is an issue these days where employees rights are such that it is hard for employers to get rid of staff who dont perform. Sooner than just being able to sack someone who isnt doing the job, they have accertain if its capability or conduct, if capability they need to be able to show that they have provided any training required, and provide more if needed, and conduct means going through a lengthy and expensive disciplinary process, or risk a tribunal for unfair or constructive dismissal after the act. Easier to employ agency staff, and if they aint right for your operation you tell the agency you dont want that driver back. If they are good, you then discuss temp to perm terms with the agency and in effect buy that driver off them, if the driver wants to come across. Its just one of them things where having rights as an employee means that employers are more wary.
Iamati
Posts: 14
Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2021 6:07 am

Re: Why do so many companies use agencies? Instead of paying a decent wage to their drivers. Surely then you aren’t payi

Post by Iamati »

Lolade wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:54 am There is an issue these days where employees rights are such that it is hard for employers to get rid of staff who dont perform. Sooner than just being able to sack someone who isnt doing the job, they have accertain if its capability or conduct, if capability they need to be able to show that they have provided any training required, and provide more if needed, and conduct means going through a lengthy and expensive disciplinary process, or risk a tribunal for unfair or constructive dismissal after the act. Easier to employ agency staff, and if they aint right for your operation you tell the agency you dont want that driver back. If they are good, you then discuss temp to perm terms with the agency and in effect buy that driver off them, if the driver wants to come across. Its just one of them things where having rights as an employee means that employers are more wary.
even agency have rights these days, to get rid of one, you need to go through the formal process of investigation/disciplinary etc. The days of binning them off are gone thank heavens
BotBull
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat Aug 14, 2021 2:33 pm

Re: Why do so many companies use agencies? Instead of paying a decent wage to their drivers. Surely then you aren’t payi

Post by BotBull »

Lolade wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:54 am There is an issue these days where employees rights are such that it is hard for employers to get rid of staff who dont perform. Sooner than just being able to sack someone who isnt doing the job, they have accertain if its capability or conduct, if capability they need to be able to show that they have provided any training required, and provide more if needed, and conduct means going through a lengthy and expensive disciplinary process, or risk a tribunal for unfair or constructive dismissal after the act. Easier to employ agency staff, and if they aint right for your operation you tell the agency you dont want that driver back. If they are good, you then discuss temp to perm terms with the agency and in effect buy that driver off them, if the driver wants to come across. Its just one of them things where having rights as an employee means that employers are more wary.
as a customers (operator) you don’t. You can simply ask agency not to book certain individual again. Done it countless of times for various reasons. If agency themselves wants to sack said person then yes, they still have to go through the same process as with any other employee.
Iamati
Posts: 14
Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2021 6:07 am

Re: Why do so many companies use agencies? Instead of paying a decent wage to their drivers. Surely then you aren’t payi

Post by Iamati »

Lolade wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:54 am There is an issue these days where employees rights are such that it is hard for employers to get rid of staff who dont perform. Sooner than just being able to sack someone who isnt doing the job, they have accertain if its capability or conduct, if capability they need to be able to show that they have provided any training required, and provide more if needed, and conduct means going through a lengthy and expensive disciplinary process, or risk a tribunal for unfair or constructive dismissal after the act. Easier to employ agency staff, and if they aint right for your operation you tell the agency you dont want that driver back. If they are good, you then discuss temp to perm terms with the agency and in effect buy that driver off them, if the driver wants to come across. Its just one of them things where having rights as an employee means that employers are more wary.
absolutely, but many large companies have agreements in place to go through the process to ensure they dont fall foul of discrmination laws. If I was asked not to supply a driver again, I would want to know why and it had to be a valid reason, with some meat on the bone. And it goes without saying that I have had requests not to supply based on discriminatory reasons, although back in the early 90s it wasnt as strict as now.
Lolade
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2021 9:37 am

Re: Why do so many companies use agencies? Instead of paying a decent wage to their drivers. Surely then you aren’t payi

Post by Lolade »

Lolade wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:54 am There is an issue these days where employees rights are such that it is hard for employers to get rid of staff who dont perform. Sooner than just being able to sack someone who isnt doing the job, they have accertain if its capability or conduct, if capability they need to be able to show that they have provided any training required, and provide more if needed, and conduct means going through a lengthy and expensive disciplinary process, or risk a tribunal for unfair or constructive dismissal after the act. Easier to employ agency staff, and if they aint right for your operation you tell the agency you dont want that driver back. If they are good, you then discuss temp to perm terms with the agency and in effect buy that driver off them, if the driver wants to come across. Its just one of them things where having rights as an employee means that employers are more wary.
as the operator you wouldnt normally need to give much in the way of an explanation to the agency...the agency want as many drivers in your operation as possible, and wouldnt risk you using another agency instead. When I dealt with agencies, they were only really interested in details and statements etc if one of their drivers had done something so bad they they were looking at loosing them off their books.
Iamati
Posts: 14
Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2021 6:07 am

Re: Why do so many companies use agencies? Instead of paying a decent wage to their drivers. Surely then you aren’t payi

Post by Iamati »

Lolade wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:54 am There is an issue these days where employees rights are such that it is hard for employers to get rid of staff who dont perform. Sooner than just being able to sack someone who isnt doing the job, they have accertain if its capability or conduct, if capability they need to be able to show that they have provided any training required, and provide more if needed, and conduct means going through a lengthy and expensive disciplinary process, or risk a tribunal for unfair or constructive dismissal after the act. Easier to employ agency staff, and if they aint right for your operation you tell the agency you dont want that driver back. If they are good, you then discuss temp to perm terms with the agency and in effect buy that driver off them, if the driver wants to come across. Its just one of them things where having rights as an employee means that employers are more wary.
again, it all depends on the agreement, where I work they have an exclusive contract with an agency and agreements in place for this sort of stuff. We had one recently where a depot binned one off but we had to have him back as procedure wasnt followed, he was bang to rights too
BotBull
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat Aug 14, 2021 2:33 pm

Re: Why do so many companies use agencies? Instead of paying a decent wage to their drivers. Surely then you aren’t payi

Post by BotBull »

Lolade wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:54 am There is an issue these days where employees rights are such that it is hard for employers to get rid of staff who dont perform. Sooner than just being able to sack someone who isnt doing the job, they have accertain if its capability or conduct, if capability they need to be able to show that they have provided any training required, and provide more if needed, and conduct means going through a lengthy and expensive disciplinary process, or risk a tribunal for unfair or constructive dismissal after the act. Easier to employ agency staff, and if they aint right for your operation you tell the agency you dont want that driver back. If they are good, you then discuss temp to perm terms with the agency and in effect buy that driver off them, if the driver wants to come across. Its just one of them things where having rights as an employee means that employers are more wary.
you only talking very large companies where you agree to supply them with certain number of drivers and they agree to take them. However, binning an agency driver will not fall under employment law. It would be a contractual breach (if there’s one). In other words the agency drivers can’t take for example Stobarts to court if they got rid of them. Unless there’s discriminatory issues which is a completely different matter in any case. And as a smaller haulier you would still give reasons to an agency why you don’t want certain driver in, but it doesn’t have to be gross misconduct etc.
Deluxess
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed Sep 15, 2021 1:00 pm

Re: Why do so many companies use agencies? Instead of paying a decent wage to their drivers. Surely then you aren’t payi

Post by Deluxess »

Many companies taking a hit now hoping they’ll be more drivers soon then they can drop the agencies and be glad they didn’t commit to their own staff with a pay rise.
Wakail
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Sep 15, 2021 1:32 pm

Re: Why do so many companies use agencies? Instead of paying a decent wage to their drivers. Surely then you aren’t payi

Post by Wakail »

Growing number of drivers will not work direct as they want or have to control their work hours. If employed other employees would complain. On agency that's the deal. Take it or leave it transfers to driver instead of operator.
Just the way it is.
Hygendig
Posts: 1
Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2021 5:59 am

Re: Why do so many companies use agencies? Instead of paying a decent wage to their drivers. Surely then you aren’t payi

Post by Hygendig »

Simple supply and demand.
Permanent employees for minimum coverage and supplement with contractors when you’re busy.
Some may even use all agency if they only do adhoc work.
Permanent employees are expensive by the time you pay salary, NI, pension + benefits.
The danger of agency is that you might not get the uplift in staff when you need them if drivers are in short supply.
There are risks and benefits both ways
Pince
Posts: 1
Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2021 6:02 am

Re: Why do so many companies use agencies? Instead of paying a decent wage to their drivers. Surely then you aren’t payi

Post by Pince »

Culina group have their own agency for people who don't want the commitment of working long hours, but they would rather take on full time drivers and now with the expansion of depots if anyone is looking give them a try
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