Hi, Thoughts please. Scenario - A parcel van driver is put through his class 2 by his employer who pays for the

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kurisusser
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2022 2:13 pm

Hi, Thoughts please. Scenario - A parcel van driver is put through his class 2 by his employer who pays for the

Post by kurisusser »

Hi, Scenario - A parcel van driver is put through his class 2 by his employer who pays for the course and subsequent driver card costs. A new contract is signed including the need for the driver to be with the company for at least 18 months as they have paid to put him through the course. 8 months later there is a work related fall out and the driver has no option and leaves, completing his 2 weeks notice as per the contract. The employer is now with holding the guys last 4 weeks wages until the driver card is returned to them as the card is their property. Thoughts please.
ShellSpin
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri May 12, 2023 2:48 pm

Re: Hi, Thoughts please. Scenario - A parcel van driver is put through his class 2 by his employer who pays for the

Post by ShellSpin »

I’m m sure the drivers card remains DVLA property. Employer may be able to withhold wages for the agreed cost of the course / part there of / pro rata last left for that. If it states he was to reimburse the company for the cost of the card then that must be done by other means
poeterClear
Posts: 20
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2022 5:08 pm

Re: Hi, Thoughts please. Scenario - A parcel van driver is put through his class 2 by his employer who pays for the

Post by poeterClear »

ShellSpin wrote: Fri Feb 09, 2024 9:18 pm I’m m sure the drivers card remains DVLA property. Employer may be able to withhold wages for the agreed cost of the course / part there of / pro rata last left for that. If it states he was to reimburse the company for the cost of the card then that must be done by other means
correct the driver card is the property of dvla as is the company car and the registration number of your vehicle. You are effectively given a permit to display the number on your vehicle, any private place can be withdrawn if it is used with the digits in the wrong place, and it matters not that you paid £10,000 for it !!
richielte
Posts: 134
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2022 3:05 pm

Re: Hi, Thoughts please. Scenario - A parcel van driver is put through his class 2 by his employer who pays for the

Post by richielte »

The card belongs to the DVLA!
Simonwalk
Posts: 14
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2022 2:49 pm

Re: Hi, Thoughts please. Scenario - A parcel van driver is put through his class 2 by his employer who pays for the

Post by Simonwalk »

Not their card - maybe withhold equivalent to the cost of said card, and training costs etc, outfall out and no optio to leave" sound like grounds for some sort of tribunal
chiariBug
Posts: 31
Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2022 2:58 pm

Re: Hi, Thoughts please. Scenario - A parcel van driver is put through his class 2 by his employer who pays for the

Post by chiariBug »

No. Can withhold wages to pay for his training if it’s in his contract or a written agreement. Definitely cannot with old his driver card
JoshKish
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2022 10:01 am

Re: Hi, Thoughts please. Scenario - A parcel van driver is put through his class 2 by his employer who pays for the

Post by JoshKish »

Agree with the other comments. The driver card/driving licence/DQC are not owned by the company. The price to purchase/train depends on the wording of the employment contract.
Ask for a copy of the contract to see what is covered in the payback agreement. If it’s not squeaky clean in the wording for the driver card charges, which I suspect is the the case and the reason they are asking for it back, I’d advise any company I worked with to learn from the mistake and let the cost go.
Alistry
Posts: 19
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2022 11:36 am

Re: Hi, Thoughts please. Scenario - A parcel van driver is put through his class 2 by his employer who pays for the

Post by Alistry »

This is not possible the driver card belongs to the person who's names is on the card not the company.
And due to the complications with the company and the employee.
If the employee has to leave the employer can not hold any monies due.
Stekeebosi
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2022 7:57 am

Re: Hi, Thoughts please. Scenario - A parcel van driver is put through his class 2 by his employer who pays for the

Post by Stekeebosi »

I would go straight to ACAS. It angers me when employers stop a drivers money, if they can't sort their differences any other way, they aren't great employers.
punkYoung
Posts: 28
Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2022 3:04 pm

Re: Hi, Thoughts please. Scenario - A parcel van driver is put through his class 2 by his employer who pays for the

Post by punkYoung »

Stekeebosi wrote: Fri Feb 09, 2024 9:21 pm I would go straight to ACAS. It angers me when employers stop a drivers money, if they can't sort their differences any other way, they aren't great employers.
it angers me when employees fail to fulfil their contract and then expect to be paid.
joshun00
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2022 4:50 pm

Re: Hi, Thoughts please. Scenario - A parcel van driver is put through his class 2 by his employer who pays for the

Post by joshun00 »

punkYoung wrote: Fri Feb 09, 2024 9:22 pm
Stekeebosi wrote: Fri Feb 09, 2024 9:21 pm I would go straight to ACAS. It angers me when employers stop a drivers money, if they can't sort their differences any other way, they aren't great employers.
it angers me when employees fail to fulfil their contract and then expect to be paid.
agreed
Stekeebosi
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2022 7:57 am

Re: Hi, Thoughts please. Scenario - A parcel van driver is put through his class 2 by his employer who pays for the

Post by Stekeebosi »

punkYoung wrote: Fri Feb 09, 2024 9:22 pm
Stekeebosi wrote: Fri Feb 09, 2024 9:21 pm I would go straight to ACAS. It angers me when employers stop a drivers money, if they can't sort their differences any other way, they aren't great employers.
it angers me when employees fail to fulfil their contract and then expect to be paid.
it may alarm you to know I am an employer!
punkYoung
Posts: 28
Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2022 3:04 pm

Re: Hi, Thoughts please. Scenario - A parcel van driver is put through his class 2 by his employer who pays for the

Post by punkYoung »

Stekeebosi wrote: Fri Feb 09, 2024 9:23 pm
punkYoung wrote: Fri Feb 09, 2024 9:22 pm
Stekeebosi wrote: Fri Feb 09, 2024 9:21 pm I would go straight to ACAS. It angers me when employers stop a drivers money, if they can't sort their differences any other way, they aren't great employers.
it angers me when employees fail to fulfil their contract and then expect to be paid.
it may alarm you to know I am an employer!
more fool you. I sold my company a few years ago.
Stekeebosi
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2022 7:57 am

Re: Hi, Thoughts please. Scenario - A parcel van driver is put through his class 2 by his employer who pays for the

Post by Stekeebosi »

punkYoung wrote: Fri Feb 09, 2024 9:23 pm
Stekeebosi wrote: Fri Feb 09, 2024 9:23 pm
punkYoung wrote: Fri Feb 09, 2024 9:22 pm

it angers me when employees fail to fulfil their contract and then expect to be paid.
it may alarm you to know I am an employer!
more fool you. I sold my company a few years ago.
just as well you did if your not prepared to talk to your employees!
punkYoung
Posts: 28
Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2022 3:04 pm

Re: Hi, Thoughts please. Scenario - A parcel van driver is put through his class 2 by his employer who pays for the

Post by punkYoung »

Stekeebosi wrote: Fri Feb 09, 2024 9:23 pm
punkYoung wrote: Fri Feb 09, 2024 9:23 pm
Stekeebosi wrote: Fri Feb 09, 2024 9:23 pm

it may alarm you to know I am an employer!
more fool you. I sold my company a few years ago.
just as well you did if your not prepared to talk to your employees!
when did I utter those or any similar words?
Stekeebosi
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2022 7:57 am

Re: Hi, Thoughts please. Scenario - A parcel van driver is put through his class 2 by his employer who pays for the

Post by Stekeebosi »

punkYoung wrote: Fri Feb 09, 2024 9:24 pm
Stekeebosi wrote: Fri Feb 09, 2024 9:23 pm
punkYoung wrote: Fri Feb 09, 2024 9:23 pm

more fool you. I sold my company a few years ago.
just as well you did if your not prepared to talk to your employees!
when did I utter those or any similar words?
let it rest mate, your out of it, I would like to be. The job us buggered with red tape! Take care
punkYoung
Posts: 28
Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2022 3:04 pm

Re: Hi, Thoughts please. Scenario - A parcel van driver is put through his class 2 by his employer who pays for the

Post by punkYoung »

Stekeebosi wrote: Fri Feb 09, 2024 9:24 pm
punkYoung wrote: Fri Feb 09, 2024 9:24 pm
Stekeebosi wrote: Fri Feb 09, 2024 9:23 pm

just as well you did if your not prepared to talk to your employees!
when did I utter those or any similar words?
let it rest mate, your out of it, I would like to be. The job us buggered with red tape! Take care
no, I'm not "out of it" and I resent your allegation that "I was not prepared to talk to my employees".
Perhaps you shouldn't start an argument with false comments if you want to win.
I'm very happily parked in the services for the night.
Stekeebosi
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2022 7:57 am

Re: Hi, Thoughts please. Scenario - A parcel van driver is put through his class 2 by his employer who pays for the

Post by Stekeebosi »

punkYoung wrote: Fri Feb 09, 2024 9:25 pm
Stekeebosi wrote: Fri Feb 09, 2024 9:24 pm
punkYoung wrote: Fri Feb 09, 2024 9:24 pm

when did I utter those or any similar words?
let it rest mate, your out of it, I would like to be. The job us buggered with red tape! Take care
no, I'm not "out of it" and I resent your allegation that "I was not prepared to talk to my employees".
Perhaps you shouldn't start an argument with false comments if you want to win.
I'm very happily parked in the services for the night.
happy days!
Martynet
Posts: 23
Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2022 2:17 pm

Re: Hi, Thoughts please. Scenario - A parcel van driver is put through his class 2 by his employer who pays for the

Post by Martynet »

If the driver has no other option than to leave. That could be classed as constructive dismissal. Just go to ACAS.
Johnopti
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2022 5:10 pm

Re: Hi, Thoughts please. Scenario - A parcel van driver is put through his class 2 by his employer who pays for the

Post by Johnopti »

We asked all drivers to complete a retainer form once training had been completed. The cost of training was greater than one weeks money held by the company. Any driver that left never repaid the outstanding amount as HR advised the letter was a deterrent but was very difficult to recoup the costs. The driver card remains the property of DVLA I believe.
KeepupMax
Posts: 47
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2022 2:45 pm

Re: Hi, Thoughts please. Scenario - A parcel van driver is put through his class 2 by his employer who pays for the

Post by KeepupMax »

Johnopti wrote: Fri Feb 09, 2024 9:26 pm We asked all drivers to complete a retainer form once training had been completed. The cost of training was greater than one weeks money held by the company. Any driver that left never repaid the outstanding amount as HR advised the letter was a deterrent but was very difficult to recoup the costs. The driver card remains the property of DVLA I believe.
Agreed. Most “training agreements” would not stand in court. Companies put them in place as a deterrent and for gullible people who just believe anything the company says
alundp
Posts: 56
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2022 3:30 pm

Re: Hi, Thoughts please. Scenario - A parcel van driver is put through his class 2 by his employer who pays for the

Post by alundp »

He must be paid for work done. If they want any money from him they will have to take him to court. The drivers card is never the property of the company. He could of course return it and then report it stolen. Personally I would be talking to a Solicitor
Stekeebosi
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2022 7:57 am

Re: Hi, Thoughts please. Scenario - A parcel van driver is put through his class 2 by his employer who pays for the

Post by Stekeebosi »

alundp wrote: Fri Feb 09, 2024 9:27 pm He must be paid for work done. If they want any money from him they will have to take him to court. The drivers card is never the property of the company. He could of course return it and then report it stolen. Personally I would be talking to a Solicitor
me too, but one clown on here (Punk, somebody - who is having a night out in his truck), got proper obnoxious - I don't do ignorance! You cannot withhold wages, you cannot demand the 'return' of a driver card - the employer doesn't issue it, and a disgruntled driver can cause way more grief and expense, than a few weeks wages! He only has to complain to the TC - DVSA, and they march in like you would not believe!! Leave it, and learn.
Allunte
Posts: 14
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2023 10:02 am

Re: Hi, Thoughts please. Scenario - A parcel van driver is put through his class 2 by his employer who pays for the

Post by Allunte »

What gives any company the right to prevent an employee from working and earning a living once they are no longer their employer?
Any deduction of wages could be deemed as unlawful and the costs involved in dealing with any future issues will far outweigh what your gonna pay the guy.
Pay him his money and wish him the best, far cheaper in the long run
sundayas
Posts: 10
Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2022 12:48 pm

Re: Hi, Thoughts please. Scenario - A parcel van driver is put through his class 2 by his employer who pays for the

Post by sundayas »

Under no circumstances, employer can deduct or withheld employee wage, not every contract is legally binding. If the employer want training money back, then they can take employee to court after paying employee wage
davLyfe
Posts: 29
Joined: Tue Mar 08, 2022 3:14 pm

Re: Hi, Thoughts please. Scenario - A parcel van driver is put through his class 2 by his employer who pays for the

Post by davLyfe »

Drivers cards belong to driver and DVLA if they paid for training and you signed a new contract saying if you leave within a period you will pay training fees back to the company.. then you got a bill.......its always better to opt to pay for your own training then no one as any holds
Garrynx44
Posts: 11
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2023 1:02 pm

Re: Hi, Thoughts please. Scenario - A parcel van driver is put through his class 2 by his employer who pays for the

Post by Garrynx44 »

My company pay for all my cpc, licence medical etc. We just agree to pay it back if we leave. It reduces by a percentage every year until nothing is owed if we leave. If we retire there is nothing to pay back.
MoMar
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2022 1:52 pm

Re: Hi, Thoughts please. Scenario - A parcel van driver is put through his class 2 by his employer who pays for the

Post by MoMar »

Sounds very childish, return the card.
CaulTweet
Posts: 20
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2022 4:20 pm

Re: Hi, Thoughts please. Scenario - A parcel van driver is put through his class 2 by his employer who pays for the

Post by CaulTweet »

Best to take the contact to be reviewed by a legal professional. In the past I’ve personally experienced one employer try to charge me £3000 just for the 5 day driver CPC (no that’s not a typo) and another tried to withhold wages until ACAS got involved. Best seek legal advice
LuBuzz
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2023 1:15 pm

Re: Hi, Thoughts please. Scenario - A parcel van driver is put through his class 2 by his employer who pays for the

Post by LuBuzz »

Tell the driver to order a new card because his is lost it will rock up in a few days hand the old on into the company, get your money and crack on
SteveTuch
Posts: 34
Joined: Wed May 18, 2022 1:36 pm

Re: Hi, Thoughts please. Scenario - A parcel van driver is put through his class 2 by his employer who pays for the

Post by SteveTuch »

LuBuzz wrote: Fri Feb 09, 2024 9:33 pm Tell the driver to order a new card because his is lost it will rock up in a few days hand the old on into the company, get your money and crack on
Except when you apply for a replacemenrt card you are agreeing it is lost, not that it is being withheld. It's not the correct course of action.
Company cannot demand the card back, but they CAN chase him for the training costs, but that DOES NOT allow them to withhold wages in order to recoup the costs. They're on a losing wicket on both scores.
Muhlorlo
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2022 3:45 pm

Re: Hi, Thoughts please. Scenario - A parcel van driver is put through his class 2 by his employer who pays for the

Post by Muhlorlo »

He could hand it back and get another one
Stekeebosi
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2022 7:57 am

Re: Hi, Thoughts please. Scenario - A parcel van driver is put through his class 2 by his employer who pays for the

Post by Stekeebosi »

Muhlorlo wrote: Fri Feb 09, 2024 9:34 pm He could hand it back and get another one
exactly ' I lost it'.
brucedo
Posts: 6
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2022 3:56 pm

Re: Hi, Thoughts please. Scenario - A parcel van driver is put through his class 2 by his employer who pays for the

Post by brucedo »

Question, when was the employee told he would be bound by a training agreement and when did he sign it? I'm under the impression that the employee should have been advised & signed the agreement prior to any training takes place.
The driver card is allocated to the driver, not the company & remains the property of DVLA.
Inevitably, the costs for the company in trying to recouping the training costs will out weigh the actual cost of the training and finally, unless it's actually specified in their contract of employment, deductions from wages is illegal.
Stekeebosi
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2022 7:57 am

Re: Hi, Thoughts please. Scenario - A parcel van driver is put through his class 2 by his employer who pays for the

Post by Stekeebosi »

brucedo wrote: Fri Feb 09, 2024 9:35 pm Question, when was the employee told he would be bound by a training agreement and when did he sign it? I'm under the impression that the employee should have been advised & signed the agreement prior to any training takes place.
The driver card is allocated to the driver, not the company & remains the property of DVLA.
Inevitably, the costs for the company in trying to recouping the training costs will out weigh the actual cost of the training and finally, unless it's actually specified in their contract of employment, deductions from wages is illegal.
absolutely correct.
brucedo
Posts: 6
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2022 3:56 pm

Re: Hi, Thoughts please. Scenario - A parcel van driver is put through his class 2 by his employer who pays for the

Post by brucedo »

Stekeebosi wrote: Fri Feb 09, 2024 9:35 pm
brucedo wrote: Fri Feb 09, 2024 9:35 pm Question, when was the employee told he would be bound by a training agreement and when did he sign it? I'm under the impression that the employee should have been advised & signed the agreement prior to any training takes place.
The driver card is allocated to the driver, not the company & remains the property of DVLA.
Inevitably, the costs for the company in trying to recouping the training costs will out weigh the actual cost of the training and finally, unless it's actually specified in their contract of employment, deductions from wages is illegal.
absolutely correct.
thank you 👍
paunium
Posts: 120
Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2022 1:32 pm

Re: Hi, Thoughts please. Scenario - A parcel van driver is put through his class 2 by his employer who pays for the

Post by paunium »

What does his NEW contract say about paying back any courses???????
kurisusser
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2022 2:13 pm

Re: Hi, Thoughts please. Scenario - A parcel van driver is put through his class 2 by his employer who pays for the

Post by kurisusser »

paunium wrote: Fri Feb 09, 2024 9:36 pm What does his NEW contract say about paying back any courses???????
One? will suffice that is what will be scrutinized by the parties involved in due course, thanks for your feedback
kurisusser
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2022 2:13 pm

Re: Hi, Thoughts please. Scenario - A parcel van driver is put through his class 2 by his employer who pays for the

Post by kurisusser »

Thanks all for your comments.
JasyJasone
Posts: 56
Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2023 10:25 am

Re: Hi, Thoughts please. Scenario - A parcel van driver is put through his class 2 by his employer who pays for the

Post by JasyJasone »

The company has no right to demand his driver card as it's the drivers property. It could potentially be used by someone else. If the card is not in your possession it needs reporting as missing to the DVLA.
Withholding 4 weeks wages is not permitted either unless there is a specific authority to make deductions from wages signed by the driver.
If there is a dispute about paying back training costs, this would need to be discussed with the driver and the employer to reach a mutual agreement.
If you have signed an authority to deduct from wages then I'm afraid the employer may withhold payment as it's been pre agreed.
BillStill
Posts: 52
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2022 4:13 pm

Re: Hi, Thoughts please. Scenario - A parcel van driver is put through his class 2 by his employer who pays for the

Post by BillStill »

The card is never the property of the company and withholding wages is an offence. They both need to see legal people but I do agree with what Paunium has said.
Darrenetnz
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon May 02, 2022 3:50 pm

Re: Hi, Thoughts please. Scenario - A parcel van driver is put through his class 2 by his employer who pays for the

Post by Darrenetnz »

Give them the card, phone up and report it lost and get another one
avvyncia
Posts: 27
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2022 2:31 pm

Re: Hi, Thoughts please. Scenario - A parcel van driver is put through his class 2 by his employer who pays for the

Post by avvyncia »

The employer is acting unlawfully.
1 - The driver card is ALWAYS the property of the driver it’s issued to, regardless of who paid for it.
2 – An employer can only withhold wages in these circumstances if there is a training cost repayment agreement in the contract, company policy's, handbook or similar. If they have paid for training based on 18 months service, and the employee has left before this, if they have a repayment agreement in place (which must be agreed upon by the employee), then they CAN retain wages to whatever proportion is agreed in the repayment agreement.
Dews1522
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Dec 29, 2023 1:55 pm

Re: Hi, Thoughts please. Scenario - A parcel van driver is put through his class 2 by his employer who pays for the

Post by Dews1522 »

It's illegal to withhold wages... small claims court and the card belongs to the DVLA and is obliged to be carried by the driver at all times.
jenkai
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2022 3:37 pm

Re: Hi, Thoughts please. Scenario - A parcel van driver is put through his class 2 by his employer who pays for the

Post by jenkai »

Hence the importance of having a training agreement in place
KeepupMax
Posts: 47
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2022 2:45 pm

Re: Hi, Thoughts please. Scenario - A parcel van driver is put through his class 2 by his employer who pays for the

Post by KeepupMax »

Training agreement is a legal matter and should be addressed by qualified people. Even though it’s unlikely to stand up in court and company has little chance to get money back.
Digi card is a property of DVLA and company has literally zero rights to it. I would ring DVLA and report the company as well as send an email to the OTC raising concerns about the matter and suspicion that the card could be used for illegal activities if returned to the employer (who again has no rights to the card)
They can only withhold reasonable amount of wages to cover the costs. Digi card is around £20 quid. So either your mate hasn’t done much work in 4 weeks or the company isn’t withholding reasonable amount (to put it mildly)
Kehoein
Posts: 10
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2022 2:05 pm

Re: Hi, Thoughts please. Scenario - A parcel van driver is put through his class 2 by his employer who pays for the

Post by Kehoein »

Easy fix return the card inform dvla that his employers withheld it order new one, I wouldn’t even get into the pettiness of the employees, somethings are not even worth arguing about
kaylan
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri May 13, 2022 5:54 am

Re: Hi, Thoughts please. Scenario - A parcel van driver is put through his class 2 by his employer who pays for the

Post by kaylan »

The card belongs to the driver. It’s a civil matter for the company.
Even a trainer or provider of training can not withheld the card or qualification once provided if no payment off driver. So a good agreement would have counted this event should it have happened for financial remuneration.
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