Hi, looking for some help and advice. I have a horse lorry (18t) that I use to transport my own
Hi, looking for some help and advice. I have a horse lorry (18t) that I use to transport my own
Hi, looking for some help and advice. I have a horse lorry (18t) that I use to transport my own horse and my daughters horse to shows. Sometimes I may take friends horses with me without charging them. These shows are not for prize and this is not an economic activity (no money to win or money passed to me for transport).
My understanding is that this is ok, but if I want to charge them for transport, I need an operating licence (standard).
My question is, can I take a bit of money towards fuel costs without an o-licence, or is one still required?
And secondly, it doesn’t warrant me paying an external TM as I only do two trips a month, so what’s the cheapest way for me to learn the material so I can be my own TM?
My understanding is that this is ok, but if I want to charge them for transport, I need an operating licence (standard).
My question is, can I take a bit of money towards fuel costs without an o-licence, or is one still required?
And secondly, it doesn’t warrant me paying an external TM as I only do two trips a month, so what’s the cheapest way for me to learn the material so I can be my own TM?
Re: Hi, looking for some help and advice. I have a horse lorry (18t) that I use to transport my own
thanks. Read that and I do have CPC, Type 1 transport auth, and Certificate in transporting horses. So if it’s all for leisure then I don’t need one, but it’s the profit statement that people say is a grey area.peach27 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 05, 2022 3:22 pm Have a read of this
https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... EvKzotLwtc
Re: Hi, looking for some help and advice. I have a horse lorry (18t) that I use to transport my own
pm me if you want to discuss itSeeyeler wrote: ↑Fri Aug 05, 2022 3:23 pmthanks. Read that and I do have CPC, Type 1 transport auth, and Certificate in transporting horses. So if it’s all for leisure then I don’t need one, but it’s the profit statement that people say is a grey area.peach27 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 05, 2022 3:22 pm Have a read of this
https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... EvKzotLwtc
Re: Hi, looking for some help and advice. I have a horse lorry (18t) that I use to transport my own
Should say that I did apply for a Operators license, but got held back at the TM part as I’m not qualified, and I don’t have one that would help with 1 lorry for such limited use.peach27 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 05, 2022 3:23 pmpm me if you want to discuss itSeeyeler wrote: ↑Fri Aug 05, 2022 3:23 pmthanks. Read that and I do have CPC, Type 1 transport auth, and Certificate in transporting horses. So if it’s all for leisure then I don’t need one, but it’s the profit statement that people say is a grey area.peach27 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 05, 2022 3:22 pm Have a read of this
https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... EvKzotLwtc
Re: Hi, looking for some help and advice. I have a horse lorry (18t) that I use to transport my own
Simple answer, no you cannot take ANY reward without having a o license. No fuel no burgers, no nothing.
The cheapest way is don’t take any reward, or don’t charge them.
Remember when you charge them you need a lot more and different insurance. Only you can answer if it’s worth it at the end.
It’s the same why a lot of sponsors got removed from horse boxes a few years ago.
The cheapest way is don’t take any reward, or don’t charge them.
Remember when you charge them you need a lot more and different insurance. Only you can answer if it’s worth it at the end.
It’s the same why a lot of sponsors got removed from horse boxes a few years ago.
Re: Hi, looking for some help and advice. I have a horse lorry (18t) that I use to transport my own
The sponsor but makes complete sense now. I think it will be easier if I just don’t charge. I may look to take the course myself so I could apply at a later stage.jandra wrote: ↑Fri Aug 05, 2022 3:25 pm Simple answer, no you cannot take ANY reward without having a o license. No fuel no burgers, no nothing.
The cheapest way is don’t take any reward, or don’t charge them.
Remember when you charge them you need a lot more and different insurance. Only you can answer if it’s worth it at the end.
It’s the same why a lot of sponsors got removed from horse boxes a few years ago.
Re: Hi, looking for some help and advice. I have a horse lorry (18t) that I use to transport my own
notjandra wrote: ↑Fri Aug 05, 2022 3:25 pm Simple answer, no you cannot take ANY reward without having a o license. No fuel no burgers, no nothing.
The cheapest way is don’t take any reward, or don’t charge them.
Remember when you charge them you need a lot more and different insurance. Only you can answer if it’s worth it at the end.
It’s the same why a lot of sponsors got removed from horse boxes a few years ago.
true. I think the wording is something like “more than minimal”. You can take fuel money if it only covers costs.
Re: Hi, looking for some help and advice. I have a horse lorry (18t) that I use to transport my own
This is what I was told, but then other people contradict it.peach27 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 05, 2022 3:25 pmnotjandra wrote: ↑Fri Aug 05, 2022 3:25 pm Simple answer, no you cannot take ANY reward without having a o license. No fuel no burgers, no nothing.
The cheapest way is don’t take any reward, or don’t charge them.
Remember when you charge them you need a lot more and different insurance. Only you can answer if it’s worth it at the end.
It’s the same why a lot of sponsors got removed from horse boxes a few years ago.
true. I think the wording is something like “more than minimal”. You can take fuel money if it only covers costs.
Re: Hi, looking for some help and advice. I have a horse lorry (18t) that I use to transport my own
we can agree to disagree. Taking a “friend” for nothing is fine. Getting fuel money is counted as a “reward” I remember it well a few years ago with my evening and racing buddies. The exact reason why sponsors were removed from the trucks.peach27 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 05, 2022 3:25 pmnotjandra wrote: ↑Fri Aug 05, 2022 3:25 pm Simple answer, no you cannot take ANY reward without having a o license. No fuel no burgers, no nothing.
The cheapest way is don’t take any reward, or don’t charge them.
Remember when you charge them you need a lot more and different insurance. Only you can answer if it’s worth it at the end.
It’s the same why a lot of sponsors got removed from horse boxes a few years ago.
true. I think the wording is something like “more than minimal”. You can take fuel money if it only covers costs.
What is enforced, if your ever stopped and what stays between friends is totally a different matter.
One could argue your “covering costs” but one could argue your just a bad with a calculator.
As always it’s when shit hits the fan it all comes to light, when your stopped on a smart motorway, all when some idiot ploughs in the back of you when your broken down. Etc etc.
Re: Hi, looking for some help and advice. I have a horse lorry (18t) that I use to transport my own
http://hpa-polo.co.uk/download/A_guide_ ... HbyC81YW-Yjandra wrote: ↑Fri Aug 05, 2022 3:27 pmwe can agree to disagree. Taking a “friend” for nothing is fine. Getting fuel money is counted as a “reward” I remember it well a few years ago with my evening and racing buddies. The exact reason why sponsors were removed from the trucks.peach27 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 05, 2022 3:25 pmnotjandra wrote: ↑Fri Aug 05, 2022 3:25 pm Simple answer, no you cannot take ANY reward without having a o license. No fuel no burgers, no nothing.
The cheapest way is don’t take any reward, or don’t charge them.
Remember when you charge them you need a lot more and different insurance. Only you can answer if it’s worth it at the end.
It’s the same why a lot of sponsors got removed from horse boxes a few years ago.
true. I think the wording is something like “more than minimal”. You can take fuel money if it only covers costs.
What is enforced, if your ever stopped and what stays between friends is totally a different matter.
One could argue your “covering costs” but one could argue your just a bad with a calculator.
As always it’s when shit hits the fan it all comes to light, when your stopped on a smart motorway, all when some idiot ploughs in the back of you when your broken down. Etc etc.
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Re: Hi, looking for some help and advice. I have a horse lorry (18t) that I use to transport my own
which angle you going for? A minute ago it was fuel money? ironically top left cancels your own statements.peach27 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 05, 2022 3:28 pmhttp://hpa-polo.co.uk/download/A_guide_ ... HbyC81YW-Yjandra wrote: ↑Fri Aug 05, 2022 3:27 pmwe can agree to disagree. Taking a “friend” for nothing is fine. Getting fuel money is counted as a “reward” I remember it well a few years ago with my evening and racing buddies. The exact reason why sponsors were removed from the trucks.
What is enforced, if your ever stopped and what stays between friends is totally a different matter.
One could argue your “covering costs” but one could argue your just a bad with a calculator.
As always it’s when shit hits the fan it all comes to light, when your stopped on a smart motorway, all when some idiot ploughs in the back of you when your broken down. Etc etc.
Re: Hi, looking for some help and advice. I have a horse lorry (18t) that I use to transport my own
read the FULL document not just the odd paragraph which you are taking out of contextjandra wrote: ↑Fri Aug 05, 2022 3:28 pmwhich angle you going for? A minute ago it was fuel money? ironically top left cancels your own statements.peach27 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 05, 2022 3:28 pmhttp://hpa-polo.co.uk/download/A_guide_ ... HbyC81YW-Yjandra wrote: ↑Fri Aug 05, 2022 3:27 pm
we can agree to disagree. Taking a “friend” for nothing is fine. Getting fuel money is counted as a “reward” I remember it well a few years ago with my evening and racing buddies. The exact reason why sponsors were removed from the trucks.
What is enforced, if your ever stopped and what stays between friends is totally a different matter.
One could argue your “covering costs” but one could argue your just a bad with a calculator.
As always it’s when shit hits the fan it all comes to light, when your stopped on a smart motorway, all when some idiot ploughs in the back of you when your broken down. Etc etc.
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- doc.jpg (7.5 KiB) Viewed 356 times
Re: Hi, looking for some help and advice. I have a horse lorry (18t) that I use to transport my own
is that DVSA guidance? If it is not, I’d suggest a phone call to the Dvsa, then a swift phone call to back house-jones afterwards.
Exactly the same as any ir35 guidance, which is great until you end up in front of a judge.
Re: Hi, looking for some help and advice. I have a horse lorry (18t) that I use to transport my own
it’s like anything Peach27. One can choose to listen or follow any guidance they want. As said, a simple phone call to the DVSa would answer this, and just because your, or your friends interpretation of the rules differs from mine doesn’t make you wrong. please, carry on. Youv wet my tastebuds
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Re: Hi, looking for some help and advice. I have a horse lorry (18t) that I use to transport my own
read everything there is in context. Two screenshots without a link mean diddly squat.jandra wrote: ↑Fri Aug 05, 2022 3:32 pm it’s like anything Peach27. One can choose to listen or follow any guidance they want. As said, a simple phone call to the DVSa would answer this, and just because your, or your friends interpretation of the rules differs from mine doesn’t make you wrong. please, carry on. Youv wet my tastebuds
Go and read the two publications I have provided the links for.
Re: Hi, looking for some help and advice. I have a horse lorry (18t) that I use to transport my own
Any payment in cash or kind whatsoever makes it a commercial journey, regardless of making a profit, otherwise people could find loopholes. It’s a whole can of worms but also be aware that needing an o licence and needing to use your tacho are not the same thing. Should definitely be using tacho.
Re: Hi, looking for some help and advice. I have a horse lorry (18t) that I use to transport my own
PM please Seeyeler I can help you
Re: Hi, looking for some help and advice. I have a horse lorry (18t) that I use to transport my own
I'd say remove this post. The answer is a very definite no. But we all know that illegal taxi. That guy that gives someone a lift to work. And he gets given a few quid for fuel. The cash in hand guy that does a bit of gardening or decorating on the side? All same thing. But on the roads. You're gonna get stopped by dvla, vosa, whatever they call themselves . And you'll be paying their wages because you not kept tacho records. You got a rosette with a horses name that doesn't belong to you. Etc. etc.
Re: Hi, looking for some help and advice. I have a horse lorry (18t) that I use to transport my own
this question was nothing to do with using a tachographMaalines wrote: ↑Fri Aug 05, 2022 3:37 pm I'd say remove this post. The answer is a very definite no. But we all know that illegal taxi. That guy that gives someone a lift to work. And he gets given a few quid for fuel. The cash in hand guy that does a bit of gardening or decorating on the side? All same thing. But on the roads. You're gonna get stopped by dvla, vosa, whatever they call themselves . And you'll be paying their wages because you not kept tacho records. You got a rosette with a horses name that doesn't belong to you. Etc. etc.
Re: Hi, looking for some help and advice. I have a horse lorry (18t) that I use to transport my own
was using tacho. As an example. But that and maintenance records will be the first thing they'll check and they'll throw the book at him.peach27 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 05, 2022 3:38 pmthis question was nothing to do with using a tachographMaalines wrote: ↑Fri Aug 05, 2022 3:37 pm I'd say remove this post. The answer is a very definite no. But we all know that illegal taxi. That guy that gives someone a lift to work. And he gets given a few quid for fuel. The cash in hand guy that does a bit of gardening or decorating on the side? All same thing. But on the roads. You're gonna get stopped by dvla, vosa, whatever they call themselves . And you'll be paying their wages because you not kept tacho records. You got a rosette with a horses name that doesn't belong to you. Etc. etc.
Best advice was to not go down that route atall for a couple of trips a month. Or just keep schtum about it all
Re: Hi, looking for some help and advice. I have a horse lorry (18t) that I use to transport my own
there’s nothing to make anyone think he isn’t using a tacho or keeping maintenance records or anything else. Lots of assumptions being made.Maalines wrote: ↑Fri Aug 05, 2022 3:38 pmwas using tacho. As an example. But that and maintenance records will be the first thing they'll check and they'll throw the book at him.peach27 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 05, 2022 3:38 pmthis question was nothing to do with using a tachographMaalines wrote: ↑Fri Aug 05, 2022 3:37 pm I'd say remove this post. The answer is a very definite no. But we all know that illegal taxi. That guy that gives someone a lift to work. And he gets given a few quid for fuel. The cash in hand guy that does a bit of gardening or decorating on the side? All same thing. But on the roads. You're gonna get stopped by dvla, vosa, whatever they call themselves . And you'll be paying their wages because you not kept tacho records. You got a rosette with a horses name that doesn't belong to you. Etc. etc.
Best advice was to not go down that route atall for a couple of trips a month. Or just keep schtum about it all
Re: Hi, looking for some help and advice. I have a horse lorry (18t) that I use to transport my own
I’ve kept all tacho printouts, have a daily walk around log for each time I take it out, complete a log journey for all the horses to and from the destinations, and comply by everything that DVSA and DEFRA ask me for transporting horses. This is only for a hobby, there is no reward or prize gained. I simply wanted to know if I did need a o-licence for taking a bit of money for fuel - which turns out I can do without an O licence, as long as it’s not profit or for commercial use.peach27 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 05, 2022 3:39 pmthere’s nothing to make anyone think he isn’t using a tacho or keeping maintenance records or anything else. Lots of assumptions being made.
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