Does anyone know where I can get more info about the working time directive, I'm doing recovery and trying max out

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Dannes32
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Mar 22, 2023 4:54 pm

Does anyone know where I can get more info about the working time directive, I'm doing recovery and trying max out

Post by Dannes32 »

Does anyone know where I can get more info about the working time directive, I'm doing recovery and trying max out my working time and driving?
Jimmco
Posts: 12
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2023 11:10 am

Re: Does anyone know where I can get more info about the working time directive, I'm doing recovery and trying max out

Post by Jimmco »

Yeah, https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... fety-rules
It if you play by the rules you won’t earn f**k all. That’s not how recovery works, you’re better off just doing whatever the hell you want and hoping you don’t get caught if you want to earn money 👍
Baynnie
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Mar 22, 2023 5:01 pm

Re: Does anyone know where I can get more info about the working time directive, I'm doing recovery and trying max out

Post by Baynnie »

Jimmco wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 5:00 pm Yeah, https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... fety-rules
It if you play by the rules you won’t earn f**k all. That’s not how recovery works, you’re better off just doing whatever the hell you want and hoping you don’t get caught if you want to earn money 👍
yeah well this should not be the case, all hgv drivers should be earning enough doing a 40 hr week, the overtime should be for saving up for life's luxurys.
Jimmco
Posts: 12
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2023 11:10 am

Re: Does anyone know where I can get more info about the working time directive, I'm doing recovery and trying max out

Post by Jimmco »

Baynnie wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 5:02 pm
Jimmco wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 5:00 pm Yeah, https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... fety-rules
It if you play by the rules you won’t earn f**k all. That’s not how recovery works, you’re better off just doing whatever the hell you want and hoping you don’t get caught if you want to earn money 👍
yeah well this should not be the case, all hgv drivers should be earning enough doing a 40 hr week, the overtime should be for saving up for life's luxurys.
decent drivers do.. sh*te drivers get what they deserve.
Baynnie
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Mar 22, 2023 5:01 pm

Re: Does anyone know where I can get more info about the working time directive, I'm doing recovery and trying max out

Post by Baynnie »

Jimmco wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 5:02 pm
Baynnie wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 5:02 pm
Jimmco wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 5:00 pm Yeah, https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... fety-rules
It if you play by the rules you won’t earn f**k all. That’s not how recovery works, you’re better off just doing whatever the hell you want and hoping you don’t get caught if you want to earn money 👍
yeah well this should not be the case, all hgv drivers should be earning enough doing a 40 hr week, the overtime should be for saving up for life's luxurys.
decent drivers do.. sh*te drivers get what they deserve.
thats bullsh*t
Jimmco
Posts: 12
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2023 11:10 am

Re: Does anyone know where I can get more info about the working time directive, I'm doing recovery and trying max out

Post by Jimmco »

Baynnie wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 5:03 pm
Jimmco wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 5:02 pm
Baynnie wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 5:02 pm

yeah well this should not be the case, all hgv drivers should be earning enough doing a 40 hr week, the overtime should be for saving up for life's luxurys.
decent drivers do.. sh*te drivers get what they deserve.
thats bullsh*t
Not all Hgv drivers are the same. Some are lazy, some can’t reverse, some have commitments outside of the work place that limit what they can do, some just aren’t that good. There’s 1000’s of different roles within the driving industry, some are better paid than others. But I can only speak from my own experience. I earn enough money on a basic week, I like smashing the overtime as I like earning lots of money. No one force’s me to, I just like spending my hard earned cash. If you find you can’t survive on a 40hr wage, that’s on you. Either change who you work for, up skill so you can command a better wage or cut down on your out goings 🤷🏻‍♂️
Dannes32
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Mar 22, 2023 4:54 pm

Re: Does anyone know where I can get more info about the working time directive, I'm doing recovery and trying max out

Post by Dannes32 »

Jimmco wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 5:04 pm
Baynnie wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 5:03 pm
Jimmco wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 5:02 pm

decent drivers do.. sh*te drivers get what they deserve.
thats bullsh*t
Not all Hgv drivers are the same. Some are lazy, some can’t reverse, some have commitments outside of the work place that limit what they can do, some just aren’t that good. There’s 1000’s of different roles within the driving industry, some are better paid than others. But I can only speak from my own experience. I earn enough money on a basic week, I like smashing the overtime as I like earning lots of money. No one force’s me to, I just like spending my hard earned cash. If you find you can’t survive on a 40hr wage, that’s on you. Either change who you work for, up skill so you can command a better wage or cut down on your out goings 🤷🏻‍♂️
Not really helpful to me
Baynnie
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Mar 22, 2023 5:01 pm

Re: Does anyone know where I can get more info about the working time directive, I'm doing recovery and trying max out

Post by Baynnie »

Dannes32 wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 5:04 pm
Jimmco wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 5:04 pm
Baynnie wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 5:03 pm

thats bullsh*t
Not all Hgv drivers are the same. Some are lazy, some can’t reverse, some have commitments outside of the work place that limit what they can do, some just aren’t that good. There’s 1000’s of different roles within the driving industry, some are better paid than others. But I can only speak from my own experience. I earn enough money on a basic week, I like smashing the overtime as I like earning lots of money. No one force’s me to, I just like spending my hard earned cash. If you find you can’t survive on a 40hr wage, that’s on you. Either change who you work for, up skill so you can command a better wage or cut down on your out goings 🤷🏻‍♂️
Not really helpful to me
you can be at work pretty much as many hours as you want, as long as you get plenty of time on break or poa, just be aware poa resets your drive time on the tacho but not in law.
Jamentic
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Mar 22, 2023 5:07 pm

Re: Does anyone know where I can get more info about the working time directive, I'm doing recovery and trying max out

Post by Jamentic »

You still have to work to the 48 hours a week on average, no one can opt out of it, even though some think they can.
ScottSo
Posts: 24
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2023 11:39 am

Re: Does anyone know where I can get more info about the working time directive, I'm doing recovery and trying max out

Post by ScottSo »

Jamentic wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 5:08 pm You still have to work to the 48 hours a week on average, no one can opt out of it, even though some think they can.
you can if on GB domestic or classed as an occasional driver under the EU regulations
NickNic
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Mar 22, 2023 5:10 pm

Re: Does anyone know where I can get more info about the working time directive, I'm doing recovery and trying max out

Post by NickNic »

You need to check on your company policy, I used to do recovery and could do some very long hours, infact its the reason that I left, 60 hours would of been a very slack week. We were not goverend by the tacho unless we were doing distance work, so if you could avoid the distance work you work as long as you can or need too....just like a van driver.
I think you had your set hours but then on top of that you would be on call, which could easily double your hours.....my longest shift was 20+ hours!
ScottSo
Posts: 24
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2023 11:39 am

Re: Does anyone know where I can get more info about the working time directive, I'm doing recovery and trying max out

Post by ScottSo »

NickNic wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 5:10 pm You need to check on your company policy, I used to do recovery and could do some very long hours, infact its the reason that I left, 60 hours would of been a very slack week. We were not goverend by the tacho unless we were doing distance work, so if you could avoid the distance work you work as long as you can or need too....just like a van driver.
I think you had your set hours but then on top of that you would be on call, which could easily double your hours.....my longest shift was 20+ hours!
legally limited to 11 hours of driving + other work within a 24 hour period, many think that if you're exempt from the EU regulations so don't need to use a tacho there aren't any rules!
NickNic
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Mar 22, 2023 5:10 pm

Re: Does anyone know where I can get more info about the working time directive, I'm doing recovery and trying max out

Post by NickNic »

ScottSo wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 5:11 pm
NickNic wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 5:10 pm You need to check on your company policy, I used to do recovery and could do some very long hours, infact its the reason that I left, 60 hours would of been a very slack week. We were not goverend by the tacho unless we were doing distance work, so if you could avoid the distance work you work as long as you can or need too....just like a van driver.
I think you had your set hours but then on top of that you would be on call, which could easily double your hours.....my longest shift was 20+ hours!
legally limited to 11 hours of driving + other work within a 24 hour period, many think that if you're exempt from the EU regulations so don't need to use a tacho there aren't any rules!
not if you don't use a tacho...or so I believe. We were not required to use a tacho unless doing distance work....
Recovery work isn't normal work so is exempt from alot, for example can you imagine your half way through clearing a motorway smash and due to hours you have to stop and leave the scene. Or you doing a job for the police and you can't complete....someone dies on the motorway because you couldn't recover them from hard shoulder as you were out of hours.....
Just hypothetical reasons why recovery can be exempt....
I'm sure the firm I worked for were doing things legally as they had police contracts so were checked regularly on what was going on....
Dannes32
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Mar 22, 2023 4:54 pm

Re: Does anyone know where I can get more info about the working time directive, I'm doing recovery and trying max out

Post by Dannes32 »

ScottSo wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 5:11 pm
NickNic wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 5:10 pm You need to check on your company policy, I used to do recovery and could do some very long hours, infact its the reason that I left, 60 hours would of been a very slack week. We were not goverend by the tacho unless we were doing distance work, so if you could avoid the distance work you work as long as you can or need too....just like a van driver.
I think you had your set hours but then on top of that you would be on call, which could easily double your hours.....my longest shift was 20+ hours!
legally limited to 11 hours of driving + other work within a 24 hour period, many think that if you're exempt from the EU regulations so don't need to use a tacho there aren't any rules!
so if I work 08.00am till 13.50 but only 4hrs of driving, do I have a 30 or a 45 min break? Then I drive another 4 hrs but work 5 or 6 hours how much does my next break have to be and at what time?
ScottSo
Posts: 24
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2023 11:39 am

Re: Does anyone know where I can get more info about the working time directive, I'm doing recovery and trying max out

Post by ScottSo »

NickNic wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 5:11 pm
ScottSo wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 5:11 pm
NickNic wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 5:10 pm You need to check on your company policy, I used to do recovery and could do some very long hours, infact its the reason that I left, 60 hours would of been a very slack week. We were not goverend by the tacho unless we were doing distance work, so if you could avoid the distance work you work as long as you can or need too....just like a van driver.
I think you had your set hours but then on top of that you would be on call, which could easily double your hours.....my longest shift was 20+ hours!
legally limited to 11 hours of driving + other work within a 24 hour period, many think that if you're exempt from the EU regulations so don't need to use a tacho there aren't any rules!
not if you don't use a tacho...or so I believe. We were not required to use a tacho unless doing distance work....
Recovery work isn't normal work so is exempt from alot, for example can you imagine your half way through clearing a motorway smash and due to hours you have to stop and leave the scene. Or you doing a job for the police and you can't complete....someone dies on the motorway because you couldn't recover them from hard shoulder as you were out of hours.....
Just hypothetical reasons why recovery can be exempt....
I'm sure the firm I worked for were doing things legally as they had police contracts so were checked regularly on what was going on....
you're exempt from the EU regulations if within 100km radius of base, but that means you then come under GB domestic rules, there are exemptions for emergencies, but the vast of recovery firms won't be compliant.
ScottSo
Posts: 24
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2023 11:39 am

Re: Does anyone know where I can get more info about the working time directive, I'm doing recovery and trying max out

Post by ScottSo »

Dannes32 wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 5:12 pm
ScottSo wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 5:11 pm
NickNic wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 5:10 pm You need to check on your company policy, I used to do recovery and could do some very long hours, infact its the reason that I left, 60 hours would of been a very slack week. We were not goverend by the tacho unless we were doing distance work, so if you could avoid the distance work you work as long as you can or need too....just like a van driver.
I think you had your set hours but then on top of that you would be on call, which could easily double your hours.....my longest shift was 20+ hours!
legally limited to 11 hours of driving + other work within a 24 hour period, many think that if you're exempt from the EU regulations so don't need to use a tacho there aren't any rules!
so if I work 08.00am till 13.50 but only 4hrs of driving, do I have a 30 or a 45 min break? Then I drive another 4 hrs but work 5 or 6 hours how much does my next break have to be and at what time?
are you in EU or GB?
Dannes32
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Mar 22, 2023 4:54 pm

Re: Does anyone know where I can get more info about the working time directive, I'm doing recovery and trying max out

Post by Dannes32 »

ScottSo wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 5:13 pm
Dannes32 wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 5:12 pm
ScottSo wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 5:11 pm

legally limited to 11 hours of driving + other work within a 24 hour period, many think that if you're exempt from the EU regulations so don't need to use a tacho there aren't any rules!
so if I work 08.00am till 13.50 but only 4hrs of driving, do I have a 30 or a 45 min break? Then I drive another 4 hrs but work 5 or 6 hours how much does my next break have to be and at what time?
are you in EU or GB?
I'm outside 100k, on monday I went outside my radious so I needed to use my Tachograph from Mon-Fri, I had sat off back on call for today
NickNic
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Mar 22, 2023 5:10 pm

Re: Does anyone know where I can get more info about the working time directive, I'm doing recovery and trying max out

Post by NickNic »

ScottSo wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 5:12 pm
NickNic wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 5:11 pm
ScottSo wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 5:11 pm

legally limited to 11 hours of driving + other work within a 24 hour period, many think that if you're exempt from the EU regulations so don't need to use a tacho there aren't any rules!
not if you don't use a tacho...or so I believe. We were not required to use a tacho unless doing distance work....
Recovery work isn't normal work so is exempt from alot, for example can you imagine your half way through clearing a motorway smash and due to hours you have to stop and leave the scene. Or you doing a job for the police and you can't complete....someone dies on the motorway because you couldn't recover them from hard shoulder as you were out of hours.....
Just hypothetical reasons why recovery can be exempt....
I'm sure the firm I worked for were doing things legally as they had police contracts so were checked regularly on what was going on....
you're exempt from the EU regulations if within 100km radius of base, but that means you then come under GB domestic rules, there are exemptions for emergencies, but the vast of recovery firms won't be compliant.
driving regs are way too complicated than they need be, but way too many hours doing recovery hence why i left and im quite happy doing long hours......but recovery work can take it to the extreme....
ScottSo
Posts: 24
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2023 11:39 am

Re: Does anyone know where I can get more info about the working time directive, I'm doing recovery and trying max out

Post by ScottSo »

Dannes32 wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 5:13 pm
ScottSo wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 5:13 pm
Dannes32 wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 5:12 pm

so if I work 08.00am till 13.50 but only 4hrs of driving, do I have a 30 or a 45 min break? Then I drive another 4 hrs but work 5 or 6 hours how much does my next break have to be and at what time?
are you in EU or GB?
I'm outside 100k, on monday I went outside my radious so I needed to use my Tachograph from Mon-Fri, I had sat off back on call for today
personally if you go outside 100km some times I'd just run under the EU regulations all the time, way too complicated otherwise particularly with the new record requirements.
ScottSo
Posts: 24
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2023 11:39 am

Re: Does anyone know where I can get more info about the working time directive, I'm doing recovery and trying max out

Post by ScottSo »

Dannes32 wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 5:13 pm
ScottSo wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 5:13 pm
Dannes32 wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 5:12 pm

so if I work 08.00am till 13.50 but only 4hrs of driving, do I have a 30 or a 45 min break? Then I drive another 4 hrs but work 5 or 6 hours how much does my next break have to be and at what time?
are you in EU or GB?
I'm outside 100k, on monday I went outside my radious so I needed to use my Tachograph from Mon-Fri, I had sat off back on call for today
There's 2 parts to the wtd breaks.
1. The 6 hour rule
you can't work more than 6 hours at any point without a 15 min break, a break of 15 or more allows you to work upto another 6 hours before needing another 15 min break. This works the same as driving 4.5 hours and a 45. (Only driving and other work count as working time)
2. The total break
This is dependent on the total amount of working time in the shift, only driving and other work count as working time for the wtd.
0-6 hours of working time = 0 break required
Over 6 but not over 9 = 30 mins of break/s
Over 9 = 45 mins of break/s required.
A shift can only be have 1 of the 3 apply, so ignore the other 2
Breaks can be taken anywhere in the shift to count towards the total required, except the very beginning or end of the shift, so each break must have at least 1 min of work either side of it and they must be at least 15 mins long to count.
The 6 - 9 and 9+ are purely used to determine how much break is required in total and are nothing to do with when any breaks are required.
So anyone who drives over 4.5 hours in a shift will have a 45 for that and tick the total break box for any shift, so all they'll need to worry about is the 6 hour rule.
These are extreme examples
of what is legal
Work 6
Break 15
Work 6
Break 15
Work 2:14
Break 15
Work 1 min
Work 6
Break 25
Work 6
Break 20
Work 2:15
Work 2
Poa 11
Work 2
ScottSo
Posts: 24
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2023 11:39 am

Re: Does anyone know where I can get more info about the working time directive, I'm doing recovery and trying max out

Post by ScottSo »

Dannes32 wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 5:13 pm
ScottSo wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 5:13 pm
Dannes32 wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 5:12 pm

so if I work 08.00am till 13.50 but only 4hrs of driving, do I have a 30 or a 45 min break? Then I drive another 4 hrs but work 5 or 6 hours how much does my next break have to be and at what time?
are you in EU or GB?
I'm outside 100k, on monday I went outside my radious so I needed to use my Tachograph from Mon-Fri, I had sat off back on call for today
When you start a shift a 24 hour countdown timer effectively begins.
When the timer in theory goes off or before you must have finished the shift and had either at least 11 hours off on rest, or 3 times between weekly rest periods you can reduce it from 11 to 9 hours. So a weekly rest at any point of at least 24 hours will reset the 3x9.
So as soon as you do 13:01 duty, you can no longer fit 11 hours of rest in before the 24 hours are up, so you will use 1 reduced rest, even if you have more than 11 hours off. It's the reduced rest that allows you to do a 15 hour duty
You also have split rests, 3 hours on rest in 1 block during the shift at some point, then 9 off all within the 24 hour period again
Multi Manning, when there are 2 drivers present, although that is optional for the 1st hour and it doesn't have to be the same driver throughout the shift. Then you use a 30 hour period instead of the 24, but it all works the same.
ScottSo
Posts: 24
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2023 11:39 am

Re: Does anyone know where I can get more info about the working time directive, I'm doing recovery and trying max out

Post by ScottSo »

Dannes32 wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 5:13 pm
ScottSo wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 5:13 pm
Dannes32 wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 5:12 pm

so if I work 08.00am till 13.50 but only 4hrs of driving, do I have a 30 or a 45 min break? Then I drive another 4 hrs but work 5 or 6 hours how much does my next break have to be and at what time?
are you in EU or GB?
I'm outside 100k, on monday I went outside my radious so I needed to use my Tachograph from Mon-Fri, I had sat off back on call for today
You can drive 9 hours a shift or twice a fixed week you can drive 10. A daily rest period resets this
Fixed week = 0000 Mon - 2400 sun
You can't drive more than 4.5 without a 45 or 15/30 (15-44 / 30+)
It's irrelevant how you split it all up so long as you don't go over the maximum and not more than 4.5 at any point
Once you have a 45 or or 15/30, then you wipe the slate clean and start a fresh 4.5.
You can't
drive 2 hours
Break 45
Drive 2.5
Break 30
Drive 4.5
But it'd be legal if the 1st break were 15 - 44
ScottSo
Posts: 24
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2023 11:39 am

Re: Does anyone know where I can get more info about the working time directive, I'm doing recovery and trying max out

Post by ScottSo »

Dannes32 wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 5:13 pm
ScottSo wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 5:13 pm
Dannes32 wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 5:12 pm

so if I work 08.00am till 13.50 but only 4hrs of driving, do I have a 30 or a 45 min break? Then I drive another 4 hrs but work 5 or 6 hours how much does my next break have to be and at what time?
are you in EU or GB?
I'm outside 100k, on monday I went outside my radious so I needed to use my Tachograph from Mon-Fri, I had sat off back on call for today
In any 2 consecutive fixed weeks, you must have either 2 regular weekly rests or 1 regular weekly rest and 1 reduced
A fixed week is 0000 Mon - 2400 sun
A weekly rest that is in 2 fixed weeks (crosses Sunday midnight) can be counted in either, but not both, unless it's 69 or more hours long, that's then a back to back weekly rest 45 + 24 or the other way about, or 90 or more for back to back regular weekly rests.
From the end of one weekly rest you have a max of 144 hours (6x24) before you need to start the next weekly rest - start 0600 Monday, you can work up till 0600 Sunday, no limit on the amount of shifts in that time
A weekly rest of at least 24 hours at any point, will reset the 144 and your 3x9 daily rest reductions, but you'll still need to make sure you're compliant with the minimum of 1 regular and 1 reduced in any 2 consecutive fixed weeks
A fixed week that is a reduced weekly rest will need the time you didn't have from 45 hours paying back by attaching it to any rest period of at least 9 hours and within the following 3 fixed weeks after the fixed week the reduction is in. If there's more than 1 reduced in a fixed week, only 1 will need to be compensated. So normally you'd just compensate the 1 that requires the least compensation.
MartinCo
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Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2023 3:51 pm

Re: Does anyone know where I can get more info about the working time directive, I'm doing recovery and trying max out

Post by MartinCo »

Type into Google Rules on Drivers Hours and Tachographs. Choose the .GOV site and you'll have a pdf to look through with all the info.
Ianrust
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Joined: Wed Mar 22, 2023 5:18 pm

Re: Does anyone know where I can get more info about the working time directive, I'm doing recovery and trying max out

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