Got talking to a fellow driver the other day he said he was LTD and he told me how much he earns, much more than me.

Share ideas, best practices, ask questions. No ads here.
Post Reply
hollexus65
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Apr 29, 2023 12:02 pm

Got talking to a fellow driver the other day he said he was LTD and he told me how much he earns, much more than me.

Post by hollexus65 »

Got talking to a fellow driver the other day he said he was LTD and he told me how much he earns, much more than me. I didn’t get the chance to find out any more details so was wondering if any of you guys could tell me the pros and cons and maybe a good accountant I could use or if there are any FB groups for this (I couldn’t find any tho) TIA
(Just a LTD driver not an owner driver would work for agencies)
AnProdigy
Posts: 13
Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2023 12:27 pm

Re: Got talking to a fellow driver the other day he said he was LTD and he told me how much he earns, much more than me.

Post by AnProdigy »

You have to do your own tax returns no holiday pay no sick pay
AnProdigy
Posts: 13
Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2023 12:27 pm

Re: Got talking to a fellow driver the other day he said he was LTD and he told me how much he earns, much more than me.

Post by AnProdigy »

Plus if no work no pay but you can pick and choose what you do
truNetwork
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2023 12:29 pm

Re: Got talking to a fellow driver the other day he said he was LTD and he told me how much he earns, much more than me.

Post by truNetwork »

AnProdigy wrote: Sat Apr 29, 2023 12:06 pm Plus if no work no pay but you can pick and choose what you do
you get that with agency on paye no work = no pay and just SSP but they do tax returns.
Even some actual employers don’t offer Sick Pay.
WalSolomon
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2023 12:33 pm

Re: Got talking to a fellow driver the other day he said he was LTD and he told me how much he earns, much more than me.

Post by WalSolomon »

Usually about 35 % of total earnings when taken everything out if you have hp or lease it’s less
hollexus65
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Apr 29, 2023 12:02 pm

Re: Got talking to a fellow driver the other day he said he was LTD and he told me how much he earns, much more than me.

Post by hollexus65 »

WalSolomon wrote: Sat Apr 29, 2023 12:07 pm Usually about 35 % of total earnings when taken everything out if you have hp or lease it’s less
Just a LTD driver not an owner driver would work for agencies
WalSolomon
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2023 12:33 pm

Re: Got talking to a fellow driver the other day he said he was LTD and he told me how much he earns, much more than me.

Post by WalSolomon »

hollexus65 wrote: Sat Apr 29, 2023 12:07 pm
WalSolomon wrote: Sat Apr 29, 2023 12:07 pm Usually about 35 % of total earnings when taken everything out if you have hp or lease it’s less
Just a LTD driver not an owner driver would work for agencies
ok don’t know then never been there good luck 😉
LakQuick
Posts: 13
Joined: Sat Apr 29, 2023 12:09 pm

Re: Got talking to a fellow driver the other day he said he was LTD and he told me how much he earns, much more than me.

Post by LakQuick »

Remember he’s paying tax and holiday pay etc etc out of that so it might not be as much more than you think
hollexus65
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Apr 29, 2023 12:02 pm

Re: Got talking to a fellow driver the other day he said he was LTD and he told me how much he earns, much more than me.

Post by hollexus65 »

LakQuick wrote: Sat Apr 29, 2023 12:11 pm Remember he’s paying tax and holiday pay etc etc out of that so it might not be as much more than you think
Thanks for the info.
mcLeniant
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat Apr 29, 2023 12:13 pm

Re: Got talking to a fellow driver the other day he said he was LTD and he told me how much he earns, much more than me.

Post by mcLeniant »

LakQuick wrote: Sat Apr 29, 2023 12:11 pm Remember he’s paying tax and holiday pay etc etc out of that so it might not be as much more than you think
not of he's got a good accountant! Which I'd recommend
ralkree33
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Apr 23, 2023 11:32 am

Re: Got talking to a fellow driver the other day he said he was LTD and he told me how much he earns, much more than me.

Post by ralkree33 »

He might look like he's earning more but he's got no job security, holiday pay and if he injured himself he's f**ked
palyseaser42
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2023 12:46 pm

Re: Got talking to a fellow driver the other day he said he was LTD and he told me how much he earns, much more than me.

Post by palyseaser42 »

I have done both. Ltd is good 💯 just make sure find good accountant and busy place to work… if your Ltd company u can get own insurance in case any injured or incident.
neiReports
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Apr 29, 2023 12:19 pm

Re: Got talking to a fellow driver the other day he said he was LTD and he told me how much he earns, much more than me.

Post by neiReports »

From being a ltd driver, there are less benefits to being Ltd now than before, the money after off takes for your running costs , accountant, insurances, corporate tax, ni, your wage, you don’t make that much more and what you do make is the company’s not your own and you will have to justify purchases and expenses etc
Finding your own work, invoicing, bookkeeping , petty cash books, slave to the phone, being busy when everyone is off on holiday
No sick pay
No holiday pay
No employment rights
Tbh it’s more hassle and stress than it’s worth
CoePerfect
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat Apr 29, 2023 12:21 pm

Re: Got talking to a fellow driver the other day he said he was LTD and he told me how much he earns, much more than me.

Post by CoePerfect »

neiReports wrote: Sat Apr 29, 2023 12:20 pm From being a ltd driver, there are less benefits to being Ltd now than before, the money after off takes for your running costs , accountant, insurances, corporate tax, ni, your wage, you don’t make that much more and what you do make is the company’s not your own and you will have to justify purchases and expenses etc
Finding your own work, invoicing, bookkeeping , petty cash books, slave to the phone, being busy when everyone is off on holiday
No sick pay
No holiday pay
No employment rights
Tbh it’s more hassle and stress than it’s worth
exactly why I left being limited to go PAYE And for £5000 less per year.
Just not worth the stress in life plus no benefits whatsoever
HolOmaha
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2023 12:49 pm

Re: Got talking to a fellow driver the other day he said he was LTD and he told me how much he earns, much more than me.

Post by HolOmaha »

You get more per hour but once you deducted holiday pay and pension that factor in you have to pay employers national insurance contributions and pay an accountant and employers and public liability insurance you are no better off then you also have no job security
The only person who benefits its the company using Ltd drivers
katGravity
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2023 12:51 pm

Re: Got talking to a fellow driver the other day he said he was LTD and he told me how much he earns, much more than me.

Post by katGravity »

I’m paye and took home over £1100 for the last two weeks. Yeah I put the work in but there is good paye work without the hassle out there pal
tomDraven
Posts: 22
Joined: Sat Apr 29, 2023 12:24 pm

Re: Got talking to a fellow driver the other day he said he was LTD and he told me how much he earns, much more than me.

Post by tomDraven »

katGravity wrote: Sat Apr 29, 2023 12:23 pm I’m paye and took home over £1100 for the last two weeks. Yeah I put the work in but there is good paye work without the hassle out there pal
so £550 a week? dont think thats anything to brag about tbf
katGravity
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2023 12:51 pm

Re: Got talking to a fellow driver the other day he said he was LTD and he told me how much he earns, much more than me.

Post by katGravity »

tomDraven wrote: Sat Apr 29, 2023 12:25 pm
katGravity wrote: Sat Apr 29, 2023 12:23 pm I’m paye and took home over £1100 for the last two weeks. Yeah I put the work in but there is good paye work without the hassle out there pal
so £550 a week? dont think thats anything to brag about tbf
£1100 each week 🙄
WilLaxr
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2023 12:56 pm

Re: Got talking to a fellow driver the other day he said he was LTD and he told me how much he earns, much more than me.

Post by WilLaxr »

Jevus wept.... ok the short version
When on PAYE you get holiday entitlement, sick pay and all the other stuff associated worth around 2 quid an hour.
LTD you are on your own. You get nothing.
Paye the money drops into your account every week or so. That's the sum total of your legal activity unless you claim back a bit for mirage and boots.
LTD the man pays a grand for an accountant and will then weigh in everything they possibly can to keep as much as possible. So his phone, fuel receipts for his car, a room in his house etc etc. This is simply tax avoidance to keep as much as possible. He may managed to get the tax liability to zero.
But that holiday and 2 weeks on the sick is worth around 2 quid or more an hour. Unless the mans on closer to a third more than you and has an accountant that's on his side then he may in real terms be on less.
He will also have to keep those full accounts for the next 6 years. He can also be let go with a moments notice where you have employment law on your side.
PAYE will always be better but if someone's got the right mindset and the right accountant they can do a degree better. I'm not sure its worth it. I got sweet f** k all on the 4 day queens long weekend and couldn't get work where others were happily sayt on £140 a day for doing nothing. Xmas ditto, Easter ditto, week in del sol ditto etc etc
steHunter
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2023 12:58 pm

Re: Got talking to a fellow driver the other day he said he was LTD and he told me how much he earns, much more than me.

Post by steHunter »

WilLaxr wrote: Sat Apr 29, 2023 12:28 pm Jevus wept.... ok the short version
When on PAYE you get holiday entitlement, sick pay and all the other stuff associated worth around 2 quid an hour.
LTD you are on your own. You get nothing.
Paye the money drops into your account every week or so. That's the sum total of your legal activity unless you claim back a bit for mirage and boots.
LTD the man pays a grand for an accountant and will then weigh in everything they possibly can to keep as much as possible. So his phone, fuel receipts for his car, a room in his house etc etc. This is simply tax avoidance to keep as much as possible. He may managed to get the tax liability to zero.
But that holiday and 2 weeks on the sick is worth around 2 quid or more an hour. Unless the mans on closer to a third more than you and has an accountant that's on his side then he may in real terms be on less.
He will also have to keep those full accounts for the next 6 years. He can also be let go with a moments notice where you have employment law on your side.
PAYE will always be better but if someone's got the right mindset and the right accountant they can do a degree better. I'm not sure its worth it. I got sweet f** k all on the 4 day queens long weekend and couldn't get work where others were happily sayt on £140 a day for doing nothing. Xmas ditto, Easter ditto, week in del sol ditto etc etc
I've always had holiday pay, its paid by my employer 😏
WilLaxr
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2023 12:56 pm

Re: Got talking to a fellow driver the other day he said he was LTD and he told me how much he earns, much more than me.

Post by WilLaxr »

steHunter wrote: Sat Apr 29, 2023 12:28 pm
WilLaxr wrote: Sat Apr 29, 2023 12:28 pm Jevus wept.... ok the short version
When on PAYE you get holiday entitlement, sick pay and all the other stuff associated worth around 2 quid an hour.
LTD you are on your own. You get nothing.
Paye the money drops into your account every week or so. That's the sum total of your legal activity unless you claim back a bit for mirage and boots.
LTD the man pays a grand for an accountant and will then weigh in everything they possibly can to keep as much as possible. So his phone, fuel receipts for his car, a room in his house etc etc. This is simply tax avoidance to keep as much as possible. He may managed to get the tax liability to zero.
But that holiday and 2 weeks on the sick is worth around 2 quid or more an hour. Unless the mans on closer to a third more than you and has an accountant that's on his side then he may in real terms be on less.
He will also have to keep those full accounts for the next 6 years. He can also be let go with a moments notice where you have employment law on your side.
PAYE will always be better but if someone's got the right mindset and the right accountant they can do a degree better. I'm not sure its worth it. I got sweet f** k all on the 4 day queens long weekend and couldn't get work where others were happily sayt on £140 a day for doing nothing. Xmas ditto, Easter ditto, week in del sol ditto etc etc
I've always had holiday pay, its paid by my employer 😏
Ill point this out again
``ok the short version ``
Im not going into the issues of ir35, how a ltd company works, whats a sole trader or umbrella issues.... its the short version.
steHunter
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2023 12:58 pm

Re: Got talking to a fellow driver the other day he said he was LTD and he told me how much he earns, much more than me.

Post by steHunter »

WilLaxr wrote: Sat Apr 29, 2023 12:29 pm
steHunter wrote: Sat Apr 29, 2023 12:28 pm
WilLaxr wrote: Sat Apr 29, 2023 12:28 pm Jevus wept.... ok the short version
When on PAYE you get holiday entitlement, sick pay and all the other stuff associated worth around 2 quid an hour.
LTD you are on your own. You get nothing.
Paye the money drops into your account every week or so. That's the sum total of your legal activity unless you claim back a bit for mirage and boots.
LTD the man pays a grand for an accountant and will then weigh in everything they possibly can to keep as much as possible. So his phone, fuel receipts for his car, a room in his house etc etc. This is simply tax avoidance to keep as much as possible. He may managed to get the tax liability to zero.
But that holiday and 2 weeks on the sick is worth around 2 quid or more an hour. Unless the mans on closer to a third more than you and has an accountant that's on his side then he may in real terms be on less.
He will also have to keep those full accounts for the next 6 years. He can also be let go with a moments notice where you have employment law on your side.
PAYE will always be better but if someone's got the right mindset and the right accountant they can do a degree better. I'm not sure its worth it. I got sweet f** k all on the 4 day queens long weekend and couldn't get work where others were happily sayt on £140 a day for doing nothing. Xmas ditto, Easter ditto, week in del sol ditto etc etc
I've always had holiday pay, its paid by my employer 😏
Ill point this out again
``ok the short version ``
Im not going into the issues of ir35, how a ltd company works, whats a sole trader or umbrella issues.... its the short version.
Short version is a Ltd company pays its employees holiday pay!!
WilLaxr
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2023 12:56 pm

Re: Got talking to a fellow driver the other day he said he was LTD and he told me how much he earns, much more than me.

Post by WilLaxr »

steHunter wrote: Sat Apr 29, 2023 12:30 pm
WilLaxr wrote: Sat Apr 29, 2023 12:29 pm
steHunter wrote: Sat Apr 29, 2023 12:28 pm

I've always had holiday pay, its paid by my employer 😏
Ill point this out again
``ok the short version ``
Im not going into the issues of ir35, how a ltd company works, whats a sole trader or umbrella issues.... its the short version.
Short version is a Ltd company pays its employees holiday pay!!
You withhold money from yourself to pay yourself later?
steHunter
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2023 12:58 pm

Re: Got talking to a fellow driver the other day he said he was LTD and he told me how much he earns, much more than me.

Post by steHunter »

WilLaxr wrote: Sat Apr 29, 2023 12:30 pm
steHunter wrote: Sat Apr 29, 2023 12:30 pm
WilLaxr wrote: Sat Apr 29, 2023 12:29 pm

Ill point this out again
``ok the short version ``
Im not going into the issues of ir35, how a ltd company works, whats a sole trader or umbrella issues.... its the short version.
Short version is a Ltd company pays its employees holiday pay!!
You withhold money from yourself to pay yourself later?
It's not MY money, it belongs to the company which I am an employee 🤦‍♂️
WilLaxr
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2023 12:56 pm

Re: Got talking to a fellow driver the other day he said he was LTD and he told me how much he earns, much more than me.

Post by WilLaxr »

steHunter wrote: Sat Apr 29, 2023 12:31 pm
WilLaxr wrote: Sat Apr 29, 2023 12:30 pm
steHunter wrote: Sat Apr 29, 2023 12:30 pm

Short version is a Ltd company pays its employees holiday pay!!
You withhold money from yourself to pay yourself later?
It's not MY money, it belongs to the company which I am an employee 🤦‍♂️
So you own the company you work for, are the only employee of the company you own and work for.... or rather represent as you dont work for this company but on behalf of, invoice for the hours you alone work to yourself, then invoice yourself for the money you have earned.... and you are an employee aye? cant see that not being a problem whatsoever.
steHunter
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2023 12:58 pm

Re: Got talking to a fellow driver the other day he said he was LTD and he told me how much he earns, much more than me.

Post by steHunter »

WilLaxr wrote: Sat Apr 29, 2023 12:32 pm
steHunter wrote: Sat Apr 29, 2023 12:31 pm
WilLaxr wrote: Sat Apr 29, 2023 12:30 pm

You withhold money from yourself to pay yourself later?
It's not MY money, it belongs to the company which I am an employee 🤦‍♂️
So you own the company you work for, are the only employee of the company you own and work for.... or rather represent as you dont work for this company but on behalf of, invoice for the hours you alone work to yourself, then invoice yourself for the money you have earned.... and you are an employee aye? cant see that not being a problem whatsoever.
Sorry but you have absolutely no clue what you are talking about!! You don't own the company you are the only shareholder. You are a director of the company on company payroll.
WilLaxr
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2023 12:56 pm

Re: Got talking to a fellow driver the other day he said he was LTD and he told me how much he earns, much more than me.

Post by WilLaxr »

steHunter wrote: Sat Apr 29, 2023 12:32 pm
WilLaxr wrote: Sat Apr 29, 2023 12:32 pm
steHunter wrote: Sat Apr 29, 2023 12:31 pm

It's not MY money, it belongs to the company which I am an employee 🤦‍♂️
So you own the company you work for, are the only employee of the company you own and work for.... or rather represent as you dont work for this company but on behalf of, invoice for the hours you alone work to yourself, then invoice yourself for the money you have earned.... and you are an employee aye? cant see that not being a problem whatsoever.
Sorry but you have absolutely no clue what you are talking about!! You don't own the company you are the only shareholder. You are a director of the company on company payroll.
you know exactly what I'm talking about.... you play with semantics and i sincerely hope it never catches up with you. Its little more than a front to avoid tax... that i can respect. But to come out with the i work for the company i am the director of, co, employee, the money man, the entire board of director (s)..... please. I'm beyond stupid, there's a clarity regardless of how you intend to spin it, you convince no-one. Its a loop hole for sure. But either way there's not a magic tree that drops sick pay and holiday entitlement from it . You budget from the total income to enable this where's a paye earns this entitlement on a weekly basis. That has a worth to the PAYE people.... yours comes off the top line and isn't added too. What you going to till me next. You call the director of the company.... yourself.... to ask if you can have a day off and he/you have to consider it, talk with the treasurer ( you, not a bird in the solicitors office who rubber stamped the legality to create a LTD ), wave it past the secretary ( also you ) and have a sit down together and see if they can cover the leave with the other employees ( also you ).........
steHunter
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2023 12:58 pm

Re: Got talking to a fellow driver the other day he said he was LTD and he told me how much he earns, much more than me.

Post by steHunter »

WilLaxr wrote: Sat Apr 29, 2023 12:34 pm
steHunter wrote: Sat Apr 29, 2023 12:32 pm
WilLaxr wrote: Sat Apr 29, 2023 12:32 pm

So you own the company you work for, are the only employee of the company you own and work for.... or rather represent as you dont work for this company but on behalf of, invoice for the hours you alone work to yourself, then invoice yourself for the money you have earned.... and you are an employee aye? cant see that not being a problem whatsoever.
Sorry but you have absolutely no clue what you are talking about!! You don't own the company you are the only shareholder. You are a director of the company on company payroll.
you know exactly what I'm talking about.... you play with semantics and i sincerely hope it never catches up with you. Its little more than a front to avoid tax... that i can respect. But to come out with the i work for the company i am the director of, co, employee, the money man, the entire board of director (s)..... please. I'm beyond stupid, there's a clarity regardless of how you intend to spin it, you convince no-one. Its a loop hole for sure. But either way there's not a magic tree that drops sick pay and holiday entitlement from it . You budget from the total income to enable this where's a paye earns this entitlement on a weekly basis. That has a worth to the PAYE people.... yours comes off the top line and isn't added too. What you going to till me next. You call the director of the company.... yourself.... to ask if you can have a day off and he/you have to consider it, talk with the treasurer ( you, not a bird in the solicitors office who rubber stamped the legality to create a LTD ), wave it past the secretary ( also you ) and have a sit down together and see if they can cover the leave with the other employees ( also you ).........
Explain how if I run payroll and submit a weekly FPS to hmrc, pay employee NI employer NI its tax avoidance?
FYI when you are paying holiday pay you inform hmrc when submitting the relevant FPS.
steHunter
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2023 12:58 pm

Re: Got talking to a fellow driver the other day he said he was LTD and he told me how much he earns, much more than me.

Post by steHunter »

WilLaxr wrote: Sat Apr 29, 2023 12:34 pm
steHunter wrote: Sat Apr 29, 2023 12:32 pm
WilLaxr wrote: Sat Apr 29, 2023 12:32 pm

So you own the company you work for, are the only employee of the company you own and work for.... or rather represent as you dont work for this company but on behalf of, invoice for the hours you alone work to yourself, then invoice yourself for the money you have earned.... and you are an employee aye? cant see that not being a problem whatsoever.
Sorry but you have absolutely no clue what you are talking about!! You don't own the company you are the only shareholder. You are a director of the company on company payroll.
you know exactly what I'm talking about.... you play with semantics and i sincerely hope it never catches up with you. Its little more than a front to avoid tax... that i can respect. But to come out with the i work for the company i am the director of, co, employee, the money man, the entire board of director (s)..... please. I'm beyond stupid, there's a clarity regardless of how you intend to spin it, you convince no-one. Its a loop hole for sure. But either way there's not a magic tree that drops sick pay and holiday entitlement from it . You budget from the total income to enable this where's a paye earns this entitlement on a weekly basis. That has a worth to the PAYE people.... yours comes off the top line and isn't added too. What you going to till me next. You call the director of the company.... yourself.... to ask if you can have a day off and he/you have to consider it, talk with the treasurer ( you, not a bird in the solicitors office who rubber stamped the legality to create a LTD ), wave it past the secretary ( also you ) and have a sit down together and see if they can cover the leave with the other employees ( also you ).........
You are making the same mistake as so many do, it isn't "my money"! I am employed by a company (which I am the sole director of) for the purpose of making that employer profit, for this I am paid an annual salary for. If (and that is if) the company makes profit as the director I can draw a dividend payment, which I have not drawn since 2019.
Now just to clear something up my circumstances are slightly different from the one man Ltd company that you have a right bee in your bonnet about.
I own fridge vans and employ 5 people (including myself) but the principal of business still applies to both.
If you are wondering why I am on this site, I still drive hgv for others 😎
steHunter
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2023 12:58 pm

Re: Got talking to a fellow driver the other day he said he was LTD and he told me how much he earns, much more than me.

Post by steHunter »

WilLaxr wrote: Sat Apr 29, 2023 12:34 pm
steHunter wrote: Sat Apr 29, 2023 12:32 pm
WilLaxr wrote: Sat Apr 29, 2023 12:32 pm

So you own the company you work for, are the only employee of the company you own and work for.... or rather represent as you dont work for this company but on behalf of, invoice for the hours you alone work to yourself, then invoice yourself for the money you have earned.... and you are an employee aye? cant see that not being a problem whatsoever.
Sorry but you have absolutely no clue what you are talking about!! You don't own the company you are the only shareholder. You are a director of the company on company payroll.
you know exactly what I'm talking about.... you play with semantics and i sincerely hope it never catches up with you. Its little more than a front to avoid tax... that i can respect. But to come out with the i work for the company i am the director of, co, employee, the money man, the entire board of director (s)..... please. I'm beyond stupid, there's a clarity regardless of how you intend to spin it, you convince no-one. Its a loop hole for sure. But either way there's not a magic tree that drops sick pay and holiday entitlement from it . You budget from the total income to enable this where's a paye earns this entitlement on a weekly basis. That has a worth to the PAYE people.... yours comes off the top line and isn't added too. What you going to till me next. You call the director of the company.... yourself.... to ask if you can have a day off and he/you have to consider it, talk with the treasurer ( you, not a bird in the solicitors office who rubber stamped the legality to create a LTD ), wave it past the secretary ( also you ) and have a sit down together and see if they can cover the leave with the other employees ( also you ).........
Do some homework on ir35 first would be my advice
Jouminally
Posts: 2
Joined: Sat Apr 29, 2023 12:37 pm

Re: Got talking to a fellow driver the other day he said he was LTD and he told me how much he earns, much more than me.

Post by Jouminally »

WilLaxr wrote: Sat Apr 29, 2023 12:28 pm Jevus wept.... ok the short version
When on PAYE you get holiday entitlement, sick pay and all the other stuff associated worth around 2 quid an hour.
LTD you are on your own. You get nothing.
Paye the money drops into your account every week or so. That's the sum total of your legal activity unless you claim back a bit for mirage and boots.
LTD the man pays a grand for an accountant and will then weigh in everything they possibly can to keep as much as possible. So his phone, fuel receipts for his car, a room in his house etc etc. This is simply tax avoidance to keep as much as possible. He may managed to get the tax liability to zero.
But that holiday and 2 weeks on the sick is worth around 2 quid or more an hour. Unless the mans on closer to a third more than you and has an accountant that's on his side then he may in real terms be on less.
He will also have to keep those full accounts for the next 6 years. He can also be let go with a moments notice where you have employment law on your side.
PAYE will always be better but if someone's got the right mindset and the right accountant they can do a degree better. I'm not sure its worth it. I got sweet f** k all on the 4 day queens long weekend and couldn't get work where others were happily sayt on £140 a day for doing nothing. Xmas ditto, Easter ditto, week in del sol ditto etc etc
That's a very well laid out reply. I looked into this but opted for going as a "Sole Trader" (not HGV related) all the same rules as you have stated, the main difference is a sole traders profit/loss is on the shoulders of the individual, a Ltd company is setup as a separate entity, any debts cannot be transferred to the owner if things go tits up. So, if you go bust owing £100k as a ltd company you can just fold the company and start another one, debt written off. There's director legalities but that's how i see it.
WilLaxr
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2023 12:56 pm

Re: Got talking to a fellow driver the other day he said he was LTD and he told me how much he earns, much more than me.

Post by WilLaxr »

Jouminally wrote: Sat Apr 29, 2023 12:37 pm
WilLaxr wrote: Sat Apr 29, 2023 12:28 pm Jevus wept.... ok the short version
When on PAYE you get holiday entitlement, sick pay and all the other stuff associated worth around 2 quid an hour.
LTD you are on your own. You get nothing.
Paye the money drops into your account every week or so. That's the sum total of your legal activity unless you claim back a bit for mirage and boots.
LTD the man pays a grand for an accountant and will then weigh in everything they possibly can to keep as much as possible. So his phone, fuel receipts for his car, a room in his house etc etc. This is simply tax avoidance to keep as much as possible. He may managed to get the tax liability to zero.
But that holiday and 2 weeks on the sick is worth around 2 quid or more an hour. Unless the mans on closer to a third more than you and has an accountant that's on his side then he may in real terms be on less.
He will also have to keep those full accounts for the next 6 years. He can also be let go with a moments notice where you have employment law on your side.
PAYE will always be better but if someone's got the right mindset and the right accountant they can do a degree better. I'm not sure its worth it. I got sweet f** k all on the 4 day queens long weekend and couldn't get work where others were happily sayt on £140 a day for doing nothing. Xmas ditto, Easter ditto, week in del sol ditto etc etc
That's a very well laid out reply. I looked into this but opted for going as a "Sole Trader" (not HGV related) all the same rules as you have stated, the main difference is a sole traders profit/loss is on the shoulders of the individual, a Ltd company is setup as a separate entity, any debts cannot be transferred to the owner if things go tits up. So, if you go bust owing £100k as a ltd company you can just fold the company and start another one, debt written off. There's director legalities but that's how i see it.
Yeah i gotcha .
And im registered as a sole trader so yes.
Ltd is regarding liability and as a truck driver there just isn't a liability issue to warrant its need for its existence.
There is no business assets when your a truck driver so its all very questionable. The only way it would fold was if the money you decided to pay yourself exceeded your income so if you took out a business loan to cover the shortfall. Thats also known as maladministration and tends to get you 2 years for fraud!
As a sole trader you just phone the tax man for a number, cough up your class whatever NI, fill in a self cert once a year and thats about it if someone so wishes.
JimPac8
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2023 12:52 pm

Re: Got talking to a fellow driver the other day he said he was LTD and he told me how much he earns, much more than me.

Post by JimPac8 »

WilLaxr wrote: Sat Apr 29, 2023 12:38 pm
Jouminally wrote: Sat Apr 29, 2023 12:37 pm
WilLaxr wrote: Sat Apr 29, 2023 12:28 pm Jevus wept.... ok the short version
When on PAYE you get holiday entitlement, sick pay and all the other stuff associated worth around 2 quid an hour.
LTD you are on your own. You get nothing.
Paye the money drops into your account every week or so. That's the sum total of your legal activity unless you claim back a bit for mirage and boots.
LTD the man pays a grand for an accountant and will then weigh in everything they possibly can to keep as much as possible. So his phone, fuel receipts for his car, a room in his house etc etc. This is simply tax avoidance to keep as much as possible. He may managed to get the tax liability to zero.
But that holiday and 2 weeks on the sick is worth around 2 quid or more an hour. Unless the mans on closer to a third more than you and has an accountant that's on his side then he may in real terms be on less.
He will also have to keep those full accounts for the next 6 years. He can also be let go with a moments notice where you have employment law on your side.
PAYE will always be better but if someone's got the right mindset and the right accountant they can do a degree better. I'm not sure its worth it. I got sweet f** k all on the 4 day queens long weekend and couldn't get work where others were happily sayt on £140 a day for doing nothing. Xmas ditto, Easter ditto, week in del sol ditto etc etc
That's a very well laid out reply. I looked into this but opted for going as a "Sole Trader" (not HGV related) all the same rules as you have stated, the main difference is a sole traders profit/loss is on the shoulders of the individual, a Ltd company is setup as a separate entity, any debts cannot be transferred to the owner if things go tits up. So, if you go bust owing £100k as a ltd company you can just fold the company and start another one, debt written off. There's director legalities but that's how i see it.
Yeah i gotcha .
And im registered as a sole trader so yes.
Ltd is regarding liability and as a truck driver there just isn't a liability issue to warrant its need for its existence.
There is no business assets when your a truck driver so its all very questionable. The only way it would fold was if the money you decided to pay yourself exceeded your income so if you took out a business loan to cover the shortfall. Thats also known as maladministration and tends to get you 2 years for fraud!
As a sole trader you just phone the tax man for a number, cough up your class whatever NI, fill in a self cert once a year and thats about it if someone so wishes.
great reply..
GilJewel
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2023 1:00 pm

Re: Got talking to a fellow driver the other day he said he was LTD and he told me how much he earns, much more than me.

Post by GilJewel »

Contact Neil Hooton at HGV driver, you'll get genuine no bull sh*t advice
sauShiya
Posts: 21
Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2023 1:04 pm

Re: Got talking to a fellow driver the other day he said he was LTD and he told me how much he earns, much more than me.

Post by sauShiya »

For those saying no sick pay. Have you been on the sick? Better off being self employed and paying a health insurance if there's any risk of you being concerned about sick pay.
Yeah. No holiday pay. No real job security (if that is such a thing these days?) But far better off self employed
ChilannyBo
Posts: 2
Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2023 1:09 pm

Re: Got talking to a fellow driver the other day he said he was LTD and he told me how much he earns, much more than me.

Post by ChilannyBo »

There is not a great difference now mate since government changed taxing system if you’ve got a good paying job PAYE then keep it earning a grand a week self employed sounds good when you break it down your as well off PAYE you’ll get holiday pay pension sick pay in some cases more benefits than being self employed I was for last 20 years but I’m now paye I’m better off at least I know what I’ve got every week of the year now
WelVander
Posts: 2
Joined: Sat Apr 29, 2023 12:45 pm

Re: Got talking to a fellow driver the other day he said he was LTD and he told me how much he earns, much more than me.

Post by WelVander »

When you're Ltd, you'll need to make sure you have more than just the one company to work for or they will class you as an employee.
greGeneral
Posts: 3
Joined: Sat Apr 29, 2023 12:46 pm

Re: Got talking to a fellow driver the other day he said he was LTD and he told me how much he earns, much more than me.

Post by greGeneral »

Ignore anyone that tells you how much they earn. Half the drivers on here say they are on £2k a week. I don't even tell my missis how much I earn, cheaper that way 🤣
KyMattero
Posts: 3
Joined: Sat Apr 29, 2023 12:48 pm

Re: Got talking to a fellow driver the other day he said he was LTD and he told me how much he earns, much more than me.

Post by KyMattero »

When you are a LTD company who or how is your tacho downloads managed?
quiKenka
Posts: 2
Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2023 1:19 pm

Re: Got talking to a fellow driver the other day he said he was LTD and he told me how much he earns, much more than me.

Post by quiKenka »

KyMattero wrote: Sat Apr 29, 2023 12:49 pm When you are a LTD company who or how is your tacho downloads managed?
buy a card reader and use Tachomaster to manage them
But the companies who you drive for it’s there responsibility to keep your records
JoePress
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2023 9:27 am

Re: Got talking to a fellow driver the other day he said he was LTD and he told me how much he earns, much more than me.

Post by JoePress »

Contact Neil Hooton he will sort you out. And yes you can still be LTD
bartmee99
Posts: 3
Joined: Sat Apr 29, 2023 12:51 pm

Re: Got talking to a fellow driver the other day he said he was LTD and he told me how much he earns, much more than me.

Post by bartmee99 »

Not many firms will take LTD drivers on anymore
deaMegs01
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2023 9:33 am

Re: Got talking to a fellow driver the other day he said he was LTD and he told me how much he earns, much more than me.

Post by deaMegs01 »

Ltd will be done soon mate get yourself a decent paye.
truNetwork
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2023 12:29 pm

Re: Got talking to a fellow driver the other day he said he was LTD and he told me how much he earns, much more than me.

Post by truNetwork »

so many people said he has No Sick Pay, No Holiday Pay, No Work = No Pay and No Employment Rights.
Firstly their is Insurance out their that we all should have that can cover us for when we unwell.
All Drivers should look at getting Critical, Life & Income Protection.
No Holiday Pay
Some agency on PAYE are sneaky and offer a rate but bundle holiday pay into this rate!
Correct you have no employment rights but you normally have agreement between two businesses that can just be 1 page long detailing payment terms, cancellation fees and liabilities.
You will find not many jobs via agencies as DVSA changed all these rules last year with IR35 rule.
Any more questions let me know.
StPrecise
Posts: 13
Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2023 9:35 am

Re: Got talking to a fellow driver the other day he said he was LTD and he told me how much he earns, much more than me.

Post by StPrecise »

Lots of inaccurate information here regarding the legality of being a LTD driver.
The “IR35” stands for inland revenue internal tax code 35 which deals with off payroll working. What HMRC quite rightly didn’t it did not want is LTD drivers having The status of LTD contractor but yet being told by the client what days and hours they are doing. Essentially being treated as PAYE but claiming LTD status.
Example “Dave your on Monday Friday 9am” that is not how you engage in Contractor work. Dave would simply work his hours and send over an invoice.
The HMRC guidance wants Dave to negotiate rates and work for at least 1 other client.
Contract status is not disappearing however liability of non-payment of tax and failure to act within the CEST guidance results in the company using contractors and left to pick up the tax bill if the contractor did not pay his tax. CEST guidance asks the client to check the contractor has an accountant or is registered. I can more or less guarantee non check.
Because this is such a headache most large organisations have simply blanket banned LTD drivers.
Some will continue to operate due to size and the likelihood of HMRC enforcing CEST is small.
I have worked for a agency for a supermarket chain as LTD but they are very compliant and rates and times give me a lot of control making me the contractor.
There are many factors for choosing to operate LTD status. It’s not always money it’s down to control over your working time etc…
many agency’s and Small’s business know that many drivers won’t be paying tax. Won’t declare it and there is more or less zero repercussion because the assets and Debt are tied to the business not the individual.
£14 an hour is very poor. You would be better PAYE due to holiday entitlement and pension even for a position of £12.50 for example.
The real rates need to be £18/20 to compensate for the above once paying tax and national insurance via LTD status.
it’s different under LTD as once you have paid tax. National insurance and holiday and pension at £14 an hour LTD. This becomes less than minimum wage. That’s illegal.
Why offer it. Simply because most LTD drivers setup a business to not pay tax. There is very little repercussion as the liability is with the business not the person. Business folds. End of the matter. Agency’s no this and allow it to operate.
The other complex issue that’s hard to enforce is that should HMRC peruse non payment of tax. The end user pays so Tesco, DHL etc…. Not the agency. They are fined but the fine is not enough to detour them.
If the agency asked for a CEST certificate from the LTD driver this almost removes them from liability as this a self declaration in which the business owner (the driver) declares they will pay all taxes. The agency in this case have done that due diligence.
How would you like to not pay tax ? 14 an hour is not bad then.
newneve78
Posts: 17
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2023 1:01 pm

Re: Got talking to a fellow driver the other day he said he was LTD and he told me how much he earns, much more than me.

Post by newneve78 »

I thought the government got rid of Ltd 🤔
IaiPrime
Posts: 4
Joined: Sat Apr 29, 2023 12:56 pm

Re: Got talking to a fellow driver the other day he said he was LTD and he told me how much he earns, much more than me.

Post by IaiPrime »

One thing I learn when drivers go on about their earnings - remember, the empty trailer makes the most noise.
beaFree
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2023 9:37 am

Re: Got talking to a fellow driver the other day he said he was LTD and he told me how much he earns, much more than me.

Post by beaFree »

That ship has sailed mate, don't bother.
MunBlond
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2023 9:40 am

Re: Got talking to a fellow driver the other day he said he was LTD and he told me how much he earns, much more than me.

Post by MunBlond »

Iv been looking into it myself but for a different industry not sure if the ltd thing is safer as a driver but ultimately if there’s big claims or deaths yes you could fold the company but your still sole director of that company still accountable a such…
I would say just being self employed is a good way to go you do a tax return at the end of the year so accounting fees are less but you can do it yourself just budget for everything for easiness let’s say you charge £100 a day keep £30 aside for ur tax holidays etc pay urself £70 there’s ways of making it bit more beneficial meal allowance etc and national insurance contributions are less so make up for the holidays anyway
There’s a bloke on YouTube helan associates it’s an accounting firm he explains a lot of the differences etc
Post Reply

Return to “HGV truck drivers | General discussions”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest