Just a quick question, I've been doing Manual entries for years and was told there was a legal requirement. But are

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CoxxBlaze
Posts: 2
Joined: Sat Apr 29, 2023 2:22 pm

Just a quick question, I've been doing Manual entries for years and was told there was a legal requirement. But are

Post by CoxxBlaze »

Just a quick question, I've been doing Manual entries for years and was told there was a legal requirement. But are they 🤔🤔 Thanks
ChrLogic
Posts: 29
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2023 11:06 am

Re: Just a quick question, I've been doing Manual entries for years and was told there was a legal requirement. But are

Post by ChrLogic »

Yes.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... other-work
Along with other parts of the regulations in place before August 2020, the changes mean that all drivers (including occasional drivers) must keep a full set of records of their activities for the current day and the previous 28 days. The records must cover their:
driving
other work
periods of availability
breaks
rest
annual leave and sick leave
CoxxBlaze
Posts: 2
Joined: Sat Apr 29, 2023 2:22 pm

Re: Just a quick question, I've been doing Manual entries for years and was told there was a legal requirement. But are

Post by CoxxBlaze »

ChrLogic wrote: Sat Apr 29, 2023 2:24 pm Yes.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... other-work
Along with other parts of the regulations in place before August 2020, the changes mean that all drivers (including occasional drivers) must keep a full set of records of their activities for the current day and the previous 28 days. The records must cover their:
driving
other work
periods of availability
breaks
rest
annual leave and sick leave
Thank you there's a lot of drivers out there that keeps telling me it's not so I'm just questioning it
ChrLogic
Posts: 29
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2023 11:06 am

Re: Just a quick question, I've been doing Manual entries for years and was told there was a legal requirement. But are

Post by ChrLogic »

CoxxBlaze wrote: Sat Apr 29, 2023 2:25 pm
ChrLogic wrote: Sat Apr 29, 2023 2:24 pm Yes.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... other-work
Along with other parts of the regulations in place before August 2020, the changes mean that all drivers (including occasional drivers) must keep a full set of records of their activities for the current day and the previous 28 days. The records must cover their:
driving
other work
periods of availability
breaks
rest
annual leave and sick leave
Thank you there's a lot of drivers out there that keeps telling me it's not so I'm just questioning it
thats why i linked the Gov site.
Its the same with WTD, luckily it doesn't effect the way i work, but there are that many conflicting opinions, even I'm confused 🤣🤣
stoMedium
Posts: 35
Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2023 9:50 am

Re: Just a quick question, I've been doing Manual entries for years and was told there was a legal requirement. But are

Post by stoMedium »

ChrLogic wrote: Sat Apr 29, 2023 2:26 pm
CoxxBlaze wrote: Sat Apr 29, 2023 2:25 pm
ChrLogic wrote: Sat Apr 29, 2023 2:24 pm Yes.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... other-work
Along with other parts of the regulations in place before August 2020, the changes mean that all drivers (including occasional drivers) must keep a full set of records of their activities for the current day and the previous 28 days. The records must cover their:
driving
other work
periods of availability
breaks
rest
annual leave and sick leave
Thank you there's a lot of drivers out there that keeps telling me it's not so I'm just questioning it
thats why i linked the Gov site.
Its the same with WTD, luckily it doesn't effect the way i work, but there are that many conflicting opinions, even I'm confused 🤣🤣
I honestly think the rules are designed to confuse people so they make mistakes and end up getting fined 😄
ChrLogic
Posts: 29
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2023 11:06 am

Re: Just a quick question, I've been doing Manual entries for years and was told there was a legal requirement. But are

Post by ChrLogic »

stoMedium wrote: Sat Apr 29, 2023 2:26 pm
ChrLogic wrote: Sat Apr 29, 2023 2:26 pm
CoxxBlaze wrote: Sat Apr 29, 2023 2:25 pm

Thank you there's a lot of drivers out there that keeps telling me it's not so I'm just questioning it
thats why i linked the Gov site.
Its the same with WTD, luckily it doesn't effect the way i work, but there are that many conflicting opinions, even I'm confused 🤣🤣
I honestly think the rules are designed to confuse people so they make mistakes and end up getting fined 😄
definitely, you're interpretation might be different to mine etc, etc.
The whole rules need simplified so that everyone understands them the same. But apparently this rule was brought in without alot of the driving bodies knowing about it (if you look at some of the sites discussing it) so you can understand why people are understandably confused.
stoMedium
Posts: 35
Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2023 9:50 am

Re: Just a quick question, I've been doing Manual entries for years and was told there was a legal requirement. But are

Post by stoMedium »

ChrLogic wrote: Sat Apr 29, 2023 2:27 pm
stoMedium wrote: Sat Apr 29, 2023 2:26 pm
ChrLogic wrote: Sat Apr 29, 2023 2:26 pm

thats why i linked the Gov site.
Its the same with WTD, luckily it doesn't effect the way i work, but there are that many conflicting opinions, even I'm confused 🤣🤣
I honestly think the rules are designed to confuse people so they make mistakes and end up getting fined 😄
definitely, you're interpretation might be different to mine etc, etc.
The whole rules need simplified so that everyone understands them the same. But apparently this rule was brought in without alot of the driving bodies knowing about it (if you look at some of the sites discussing it) so you can understand why people are understandably confused.
💯 %
I knew about it when it was brought in as the company I worked for at the time was shit hot on the rules, however I know only in the last 12 months companies are still just catching up and instructing their drivers.
Interpretation is definitely one of the biggest factors of confusion though. Your spot on, they all need to be simplified.
indengo25
Posts: 31
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2023 11:08 am

Re: Just a quick question, I've been doing Manual entries for years and was told there was a legal requirement. But are

Post by indengo25 »

Keeping records is a legal requirement. Doing it via tacho is not.
I do 40 odd hours as a WFH programmer. My clocking system logs my hours and breaks. I have access to those logs on my mobile and can thus show any Vosa agent my records if required.
ChrLogic
Posts: 29
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2023 11:06 am

Re: Just a quick question, I've been doing Manual entries for years and was told there was a legal requirement. But are

Post by ChrLogic »

I'm not sure how you stand with what you're doing (just helping, not criticizing) but this is off the Gov site
When a tachograph is not available to record data in real time, the only permitted methods for drivers to make a manual entry are to:
make a manual entry on an analogue tachograph record sheet
make a manual entry on digital printout paper
retrospectively use the manual input facility on a digital tachograph when the card is next inserted
FoxFaith
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2023 9:55 am

Re: Just a quick question, I've been doing Manual entries for years and was told there was a legal requirement. But are

Post by FoxFaith »

I’ve never done one in 5 years in my job
ConHart
Posts: 46
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2023 11:11 am

Re: Just a quick question, I've been doing Manual entries for years and was told there was a legal requirement. But are

Post by ConHart »

FoxFaith wrote: Sat Apr 29, 2023 2:29 pm I’ve never done one in 5 years in my job
you need to start doing them now
morrapp10
Posts: 19
Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2023 9:57 am

Re: Just a quick question, I've been doing Manual entries for years and was told there was a legal requirement. But are

Post by morrapp10 »

At Stobart we are told to do manual entries To account for the time of driving into the yard, picking up your keys and paperwork and at the end of the end of the day the time it takes a hand in paperwork, keys and leave the yard
What I do is I start at 7 AM so I put my card in darling at 7.05 usually so I do a manual entry for other work between 7 and 705 then at the end of the day i take my card out then I just manual entry other work Until the time I clock out in the office that's the right way to do it match The Times up with the office
ChrLogic
Posts: 29
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2023 11:06 am

Re: Just a quick question, I've been doing Manual entries for years and was told there was a legal requirement. But are

Post by ChrLogic »

morrapp10 wrote: Sat Apr 29, 2023 2:32 pm At Stobart we are told to do manual entries To account for the time of driving into the yard, picking up your keys and paperwork and at the end of the end of the day the time it takes a hand in paperwork, keys and leave the yard
What I do is I start at 7 AM so I put my card in darling at 7.05 usually so I do a manual entry for other work between 7 and 705 then at the end of the day i take my card out then I just manual entry other work Until the time I clock out in the office that's the right way to do it match The Times up with the office
I was on for Pirelli and whilst at an event your card was out, but when you put it back in we had to account for everything we had done since the card was removed, it's the law now since last year.
morrapp10
Posts: 19
Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2023 9:57 am

Re: Just a quick question, I've been doing Manual entries for years and was told there was a legal requirement. But are

Post by morrapp10 »

ChrLogic wrote: Sat Apr 29, 2023 2:32 pm
morrapp10 wrote: Sat Apr 29, 2023 2:32 pm At Stobart we are told to do manual entries To account for the time of driving into the yard, picking up your keys and paperwork and at the end of the end of the day the time it takes a hand in paperwork, keys and leave the yard
What I do is I start at 7 AM so I put my card in darling at 7.05 usually so I do a manual entry for other work between 7 and 705 then at the end of the day i take my card out then I just manual entry other work Until the time I clock out in the office that's the right way to do it match The Times up with the office
I was on for Pirelli and whilst at an event your card was out, but when you put it back in we had to account for everything we had done since the card was removed, it's the law now since last year.
yea that what we do in depot
stoMedium
Posts: 35
Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2023 9:50 am

Re: Just a quick question, I've been doing Manual entries for years and was told there was a legal requirement. But are

Post by stoMedium »

Yup, manual entries are a requirement.
GeeShun
Posts: 15
Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2023 10:01 am

Re: Just a quick question, I've been doing Manual entries for years and was told there was a legal requirement. But are

Post by GeeShun »

If you're literally spitting your card out at end of shift and not needing to hand paperwork in and like wise putting your card in the second you start your shift then there will be nothing to enter, but if you have admin time such as collecting your keys and paperwork in the morning and your not getting to your truck for say 10 mins after your shift starts then you should be manual entering those 10 mins as other work and likewise if you have similar at the end of your shift. All the DVSA want is an accurate record of when you start and when you finish along with type of work done. They're not difficult to do.
Joricheq
Posts: 17
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2023 11:29 am

Re: Just a quick question, I've been doing Manual entries for years and was told there was a legal requirement. But are

Post by Joricheq »

GeeShun wrote: Sat Apr 29, 2023 2:34 pm If you're literally spitting your card out at end of shift and not needing to hand paperwork in and like wise putting your card in the second you start your shift then there will be nothing to enter, but if you have admin time such as collecting your keys and paperwork in the morning and your not getting to your truck for say 10 mins after your shift starts then you should be manual entering those 10 mins as other work and likewise if you have similar at the end of your shift. All the DVSA want is an accurate record of when you start and when you finish along with type of work done. They're not difficult to do.
not quite correct. There now needs to be a specific entry accounting for rest periods, holiday and sickness etc
nikOnline
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2023 10:03 am

Re: Just a quick question, I've been doing Manual entries for years and was told there was a legal requirement. But are

Post by nikOnline »

Yep. Generally little bit of other work, big rest, little bit of other work
hinHive
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2023 11:41 am

Re: Just a quick question, I've been doing Manual entries for years and was told there was a legal requirement. But are

Post by hinHive »

Only time I have ever done one is when I forgot to put card in so put a Manual entry to put taco back to my start time. Would say only required if u fucked up somewhere but I could be wrong although I never use manual entry's.
Joricheq
Posts: 17
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2023 11:29 am

Re: Just a quick question, I've been doing Manual entries for years and was told there was a legal requirement. But are

Post by Joricheq »

hinHive wrote: Sat Apr 29, 2023 2:36 pm Only time I have ever done one is when I forgot to put card in so put a Manual entry to put taco back to my start time. Would say only required if u fucked up somewhere but I could be wrong although I never use manual entry's.
you are indeed, wrong. Manual entry has been a legal requirement for a while now
WhitRip
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2023 10:06 am

Re: Just a quick question, I've been doing Manual entries for years and was told there was a legal requirement. But are

Post by WhitRip »

From what I've heard it wasn't until a couple of years ago 🤷
BevViking
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2023 11:48 am

Re: Just a quick question, I've been doing Manual entries for years and was told there was a legal requirement. But are

Post by BevViking »

WhitRip wrote: Sat Apr 29, 2023 2:37 pm From what I've heard it wasn't until a couple of years ago 🤷
legislation changed in August 2020, and came into force in August 2022.
collander44
Posts: 21
Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2023 10:10 am

Re: Just a quick question, I've been doing Manual entries for years and was told there was a legal requirement. But are

Post by collander44 »

If you're staying out overnight, you shouldn't need to, but as has been said, if you pick up your keys and walk to your truck, that's other work
KarAware
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2023 10:14 am

Re: Just a quick question, I've been doing Manual entries for years and was told there was a legal requirement. But are

Post by KarAware »

As far as what I’ve been told in the past is you do need to do a manual entry because you you need to account for anything that happens outside the truck when your card is out, such as you hand in your paperwork after you’ve taken your card out and it’s taken you 5mins to do that need to put that down, taken you 15mins in morning to get your paperwork/keys or whatever you are doing for 15mins before card goes in, needs to be a manual entry for basically anything you do when card is out. Unless your tramping then you can just leave your card in on break when on daily rest in which case manual entry not required
MigYoung
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2023 12:18 pm

Re: Just a quick question, I've been doing Manual entries for years and was told there was a legal requirement. But are

Post by MigYoung »

KarAware wrote: Sat Apr 29, 2023 2:38 pm As far as what I’ve been told in the past is you do need to do a manual entry because you you need to account for anything that happens outside the truck when your card is out, such as you hand in your paperwork after you’ve taken your card out and it’s taken you 5mins to do that need to put that down, taken you 15mins in morning to get your paperwork/keys or whatever you are doing for 15mins before card goes in, needs to be a manual entry for basically anything you do when card is out. Unless your tramping then you can just leave your card in on break when on daily rest in which case manual entry not required
if you leave the card in overnight you MUST still enter start and end country even if all the work is done in the UK
johnoll33
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2023 10:16 am

Re: Just a quick question, I've been doing Manual entries for years and was told there was a legal requirement. But are

Post by johnoll33 »

I put a manual entry in for 10 mins for previous work and it messed up. No one else at work knew how to rectify it, and as soon as I started driving, it started coming up with infringement's right left and centre. Why is there's no back button / cancel settings to press if you know there has been an error before driving off?..I spent at least half an hour trying to rectify it before I gave up! (apparently I wasn't the only one to do this!) The systems silly and creates a lot of excess paperwork!.
MigYoung
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2023 12:18 pm

Re: Just a quick question, I've been doing Manual entries for years and was told there was a legal requirement. But are

Post by MigYoung »

johnoll33 wrote: Sat Apr 29, 2023 2:39 pm I put a manual entry in for 10 mins for previous work and it messed up. No one else at work knew how to rectify it, and as soon as I started driving, it started coming up with infringement's right left and centre. Why is there's no back button / cancel settings to press if you know there has been an error before driving off?..I spent at least half an hour trying to rectify it before I gave up! (apparently I wasn't the only one to do this!) The systems silly and creates a lot of excess paperwork!.
I’ve done this many times, do a printout write your mistake on the back and keep that with you for 28 days and carry on with your day.
BevViking
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2023 11:48 am

Re: Just a quick question, I've been doing Manual entries for years and was told there was a legal requirement. But are

Post by BevViking »

johnoll33 wrote: Sat Apr 29, 2023 2:39 pm I put a manual entry in for 10 mins for previous work and it messed up. No one else at work knew how to rectify it, and as soon as I started driving, it started coming up with infringement's right left and centre. Why is there's no back button / cancel settings to press if you know there has been an error before driving off?..I spent at least half an hour trying to rectify it before I gave up! (apparently I wasn't the only one to do this!) The systems silly and creates a lot of excess paperwork!.
once you have done the manual entry it cannot be changed unfortunately.
johnoll33
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2023 10:16 am

Re: Just a quick question, I've been doing Manual entries for years and was told there was a legal requirement. But are

Post by johnoll33 »

BevViking wrote: Sat Apr 29, 2023 2:41 pm
johnoll33 wrote: Sat Apr 29, 2023 2:39 pm I put a manual entry in for 10 mins for previous work and it messed up. No one else at work knew how to rectify it, and as soon as I started driving, it started coming up with infringement's right left and centre. Why is there's no back button / cancel settings to press if you know there has been an error before driving off?..I spent at least half an hour trying to rectify it before I gave up! (apparently I wasn't the only one to do this!) The systems silly and creates a lot of excess paperwork!.
once you have done the manual entry it cannot be changed unfortunately.
it's bonkers!
karKans
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2023 12:24 pm

Re: Just a quick question, I've been doing Manual entries for years and was told there was a legal requirement. But are

Post by karKans »

BevViking wrote: Sat Apr 29, 2023 2:41 pm
johnoll33 wrote: Sat Apr 29, 2023 2:39 pm I put a manual entry in for 10 mins for previous work and it messed up. No one else at work knew how to rectify it, and as soon as I started driving, it started coming up with infringement's right left and centre. Why is there's no back button / cancel settings to press if you know there has been an error before driving off?..I spent at least half an hour trying to rectify it before I gave up! (apparently I wasn't the only one to do this!) The systems silly and creates a lot of excess paperwork!.
once you have done the manual entry it cannot be changed unfortunately.
I've been taught to input manual entry and then the final screen says "confirm manual entry?" - if you then press arrow down to "no", it will let you run through what you've entered to ensure it is correct before confirming it. That's the last opportunity to change anything.
SteHyper
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Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2023 10:27 am

Re: Just a quick question, I've been doing Manual entries for years and was told there was a legal requirement. But are

Post by SteHyper »

You are legally required to do this. On the other hand depends how picky your company is.... Lol
BevViking
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Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2023 11:48 am

Re: Just a quick question, I've been doing Manual entries for years and was told there was a legal requirement. But are

Post by BevViking »

SteHyper wrote: Sat Apr 29, 2023 2:42 pm You are legally required to do this. On the other hand depends how picky your company is.... Lol
doesn't matter how picky your employer is, it's a legal requirement and has been since August 2022.
SteHyper
Posts: 12
Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2023 10:27 am

Re: Just a quick question, I've been doing Manual entries for years and was told there was a legal requirement. But are

Post by SteHyper »

BevViking wrote: Sat Apr 29, 2023 2:43 pm
SteHyper wrote: Sat Apr 29, 2023 2:42 pm You are legally required to do this. On the other hand depends how picky your company is.... Lol
doesn't matter how picky your employer is, it's a legal requirement and has been since August 2022.
ok boss
NiaNieve
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2023 12:32 pm

Re: Just a quick question, I've been doing Manual entries for years and was told there was a legal requirement. But are

Post by NiaNieve »

There is no picky about it. Do manual entries or the next time DVSA are involved you will be in front of the TC.
harcraHai
Posts: 14
Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2023 10:29 am

Re: Just a quick question, I've been doing Manual entries for years and was told there was a legal requirement. But are

Post by harcraHai »

never done a manual entry yet in about 6 years, wouldn't know where to start 🤣
MigYoung
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2023 12:18 pm

Re: Just a quick question, I've been doing Manual entries for years and was told there was a legal requirement. But are

Post by MigYoung »

harcraHai wrote: Sat Apr 29, 2023 2:44 pm never done a manual entry yet in about 6 years, wouldn't know where to start 🤣
we know where to start!
It’s on our Drivers Hours and Tachograph CPC course, we have videos and simulators so you can practice yourself.
https://www.nationalcpc.co.uk/nationalc ... pc-courses
MicKaptain
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2023 10:35 am

Re: Just a quick question, I've been doing Manual entries for years and was told there was a legal requirement. But are

Post by MicKaptain »

Was told in our cpc they are,a legal requirement doesn't hurt to do them
StFestive
Posts: 13
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2023 12:39 pm

Re: Just a quick question, I've been doing Manual entries for years and was told there was a legal requirement. But are

Post by StFestive »

100 pound fine I've been told by police if dvsa catch ya not doing it xx
MigYoung
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2023 12:18 pm

Re: Just a quick question, I've been doing Manual entries for years and was told there was a legal requirement. But are

Post by MigYoung »

As per the Enforcement Sanctions Policy (what the DVSA use to determine the fines) you may be fined up to £200 for failing to record ‘periods of time’ using the manual entry facility.
If you would like to check it for yourself then look on page 150 of the enforcement sanctions policy (type in on google) the admin won’t approve the link I’ve tried sending.
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