Any Psv transport managers help with a quick question regarding children on coaches If a 6month old child is carried

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Neillon
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Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2023 4:22 pm

Any Psv transport managers help with a quick question regarding children on coaches If a 6month old child is carried

Post by Neillon »

Any Psv transport managers help with a quick question regarding children on coaches
If a 6month old child is carried on the parents lap so not occupying a seat (I think megabus offer this free child travel) is that child still classed as a passenger? So for example if it’s a 50 seat coach can it still carry 50 paying passengers and a child or would that be classed as 51 passengers?
I thought all children should be in a car seat unless it’s emergency travel?
Daavid5
Posts: 11
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2023 1:15 pm

Re: Any Psv transport managers help with a quick question regarding children on coaches If a 6month old child is carried

Post by Daavid5 »

When sitting in the rear seats of minibuses it is the driver’s responsibility to ensure that children under 3 years old are wearing an appropriate restraint, children aged 3-12 years old and under 1.35 metres tall use a restraint if available, a seat belt if not, and that all other children under 14 years old are using the provided seat belts.
There are no requirements for children under 14 to wear seat belts but it's recommended.
You could theoretically discount them as a bum on seat but god help you if anything happened.
Hope that answers your question?
Neillon
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2023 4:22 pm

Re: Any Psv transport managers help with a quick question regarding children on coaches If a 6month old child is carried

Post by Neillon »

Daavid5 wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 4:24 pm When sitting in the rear seats of minibuses it is the driver’s responsibility to ensure that children under 3 years old are wearing an appropriate restraint, children aged 3-12 years old and under 1.35 metres tall use a restraint if available, a seat belt if not, and that all other children under 14 years old are using the provided seat belts.
There are no requirements for children under 14 to wear seat belts but it's recommended.
You could theoretically discount them as a bum on seat but god help you if anything happened.
Hope that answers your question?
this is the wording on free travel -
A maximum of one infant, aged 3 years or under, can travel for free with each fare paying adult. They are not guaranteed a seat unless a Ticket has been purchased for them. Children travelling for free cannot occupy a seat if it is needed by a fare-paying passenger. Additional infants will require child ticket purchase.
As you can see it states the child can not occupy a seat, so would they still be counted as a passenger and why no appropriate restraint?
Daavid5
Posts: 11
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2023 1:15 pm

Re: Any Psv transport managers help with a quick question regarding children on coaches If a 6month old child is carried

Post by Daavid5 »

Neillon wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 4:25 pm
Daavid5 wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 4:24 pm When sitting in the rear seats of minibuses it is the driver’s responsibility to ensure that children under 3 years old are wearing an appropriate restraint, children aged 3-12 years old and under 1.35 metres tall use a restraint if available, a seat belt if not, and that all other children under 14 years old are using the provided seat belts.
There are no requirements for children under 14 to wear seat belts but it's recommended.
You could theoretically discount them as a bum on seat but god help you if anything happened.
Hope that answers your question?
this is the wording on free travel -
A maximum of one infant, aged 3 years or under, can travel for free with each fare paying adult. They are not guaranteed a seat unless a Ticket has been purchased for them. Children travelling for free cannot occupy a seat if it is needed by a fare-paying passenger. Additional infants will require child ticket purchase.
As you can see it states the child can not occupy a seat, so would they still be counted as a passenger and why no appropriate restraint?
a bit of a grey area. If DVSA pulled you I'm not sure how they'd view it. If an accident occurred how would that be viewed?
What the law says and what is expected of "professional drivers" are often two very different things.
Technically you could discard the toddler as a passenger but, how would you explain having 51 passengers on a 50 seater???
Very grey area and if I were your TM I'd say let's count the toddler as a passenger to aire on the side of caution!
Neillon
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2023 4:22 pm

Re: Any Psv transport managers help with a quick question regarding children on coaches If a 6month old child is carried

Post by Neillon »

Daavid5 wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 4:25 pm
Neillon wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 4:25 pm
Daavid5 wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 4:24 pm When sitting in the rear seats of minibuses it is the driver’s responsibility to ensure that children under 3 years old are wearing an appropriate restraint, children aged 3-12 years old and under 1.35 metres tall use a restraint if available, a seat belt if not, and that all other children under 14 years old are using the provided seat belts.
There are no requirements for children under 14 to wear seat belts but it's recommended.
You could theoretically discount them as a bum on seat but god help you if anything happened.
Hope that answers your question?
this is the wording on free travel -
A maximum of one infant, aged 3 years or under, can travel for free with each fare paying adult. They are not guaranteed a seat unless a Ticket has been purchased for them. Children travelling for free cannot occupy a seat if it is needed by a fare-paying passenger. Additional infants will require child ticket purchase.
As you can see it states the child can not occupy a seat, so would they still be counted as a passenger and why no appropriate restraint?
a bit of a grey area. If DVSA pulled you I'm not sure how they'd view it. If an accident occurred how would that be viewed?
What the law says and what is expected of "professional drivers" are often two very different things.
Technically you could discard the toddler as a passenger but, how would you explain having 51 passengers on a 50 seater???
Very grey area and if I were your TM I'd say let's count the toddler as a passenger to aire on the side of caution!
this could be me reading that totally wrong 🤣 I’m having a blond moment, that just means they need to pay
Daavid5
Posts: 11
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2023 1:15 pm

Re: Any Psv transport managers help with a quick question regarding children on coaches If a 6month old child is carried

Post by Daavid5 »

Neillon wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 4:26 pm
Daavid5 wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 4:25 pm
Neillon wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 4:25 pm

this is the wording on free travel -
A maximum of one infant, aged 3 years or under, can travel for free with each fare paying adult. They are not guaranteed a seat unless a Ticket has been purchased for them. Children travelling for free cannot occupy a seat if it is needed by a fare-paying passenger. Additional infants will require child ticket purchase.
As you can see it states the child can not occupy a seat, so would they still be counted as a passenger and why no appropriate restraint?
a bit of a grey area. If DVSA pulled you I'm not sure how they'd view it. If an accident occurred how would that be viewed?
What the law says and what is expected of "professional drivers" are often two very different things.
Technically you could discard the toddler as a passenger but, how would you explain having 51 passengers on a 50 seater???
Very grey area and if I were your TM I'd say let's count the toddler as a passenger to aire on the side of caution!
this could be me reading that totally wrong 🤣 I’m having a blond moment, that just means they need to pay
putting money ahead of safety has been many operators downfall! I'd class the toddler as a passenger.
Iaintto
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2023 4:33 pm

Re: Any Psv transport managers help with a quick question regarding children on coaches If a 6month old child is carried

Post by Iaintto »

All people regardless of age class as a passenger.
Neillon
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2023 4:22 pm

Re: Any Psv transport managers help with a quick question regarding children on coaches If a 6month old child is carried

Post by Neillon »

Iaintto wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 4:27 pm All people regardless of age class as a passenger.
I thought so, just you start doubting yourself sometimes
Lewissm
Posts: 17
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2023 6:04 pm

Re: Any Psv transport managers help with a quick question regarding children on coaches If a 6month old child is carried

Post by Lewissm »

1 day or 100 years old, each person has to be allocated a seat, even if sitting on parents lap, 53 seater, = no more than 53 passengers
Ricllerg
Posts: 15
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2023 1:07 pm

Re: Any Psv transport managers help with a quick question regarding children on coaches If a 6month old child is carried

Post by Ricllerg »

Taken from Croners “ A child under five not occupying a separate seat is not counted as a passenger. “
So in theory a coach can carry 53 adults with toddlers in their laps.
Nurseries used to book coaches and literally put 100 aboard. Highly questionable and a practice that the company I worked with would not accept.
Further reading in
https://www.gov.uk/
shows that child seats (for under 3’s) need not be supplied and used unless the parents supply it and then could only be used if they can be fitted.
There is the three to two seats for U14 rule but only where seatbelts are not fitted.
Neillon
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2023 4:22 pm

Re: Any Psv transport managers help with a quick question regarding children on coaches If a 6month old child is carried

Post by Neillon »

Ricllerg wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 4:30 pm Taken from Croners “ A child under five not occupying a separate seat is not counted as a passenger. “
So in theory a coach can carry 53 adults with toddlers in their laps.
Nurseries used to book coaches and literally put 100 aboard. Highly questionable and a practice that the company I worked with would not accept.
Further reading in
https://www.gov.uk/
shows that child seats (for under 3’s) need not be supplied and used unless the parents supply it and then could only be used if they can be fitted.
There is the three to two seats for U14 rule but only where seatbelts are not fitted.
this is why we were discussing it today, we said if they didn’t count as a passenger and you had 50 moms all with newborns 👀 that would be madness
Ricllerg
Posts: 15
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2023 1:07 pm

Re: Any Psv transport managers help with a quick question regarding children on coaches If a 6month old child is carried

Post by Ricllerg »

Neillon wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 4:31 pm
Ricllerg wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 4:30 pm Taken from Croners “ A child under five not occupying a separate seat is not counted as a passenger. “
So in theory a coach can carry 53 adults with toddlers in their laps.
Nurseries used to book coaches and literally put 100 aboard. Highly questionable and a practice that the company I worked with would not accept.
Further reading in
https://www.gov.uk/
shows that child seats (for under 3’s) need not be supplied and used unless the parents supply it and then could only be used if they can be fitted.
There is the three to two seats for U14 rule but only where seatbelts are not fitted.
this is why we were discussing it today, we said if they didn’t count as a passenger and you had 50 moms all with newborns 👀 that would be madness
It is madness Neillon we always looked at the moral aspect and, in the event of an accident - how would it be reported. We did explain to hirers why we would refuse the booking and offered a good discount (generally a school fit-in) to serve them. Most saw the sense
Daavid5
Posts: 11
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2023 1:15 pm

Re: Any Psv transport managers help with a quick question regarding children on coaches If a 6month old child is carried

Post by Daavid5 »

Neillon wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 4:31 pm
Ricllerg wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 4:30 pm Taken from Croners “ A child under five not occupying a separate seat is not counted as a passenger. “
So in theory a coach can carry 53 adults with toddlers in their laps.
Nurseries used to book coaches and literally put 100 aboard. Highly questionable and a practice that the company I worked with would not accept.
Further reading in
https://www.gov.uk/
shows that child seats (for under 3’s) need not be supplied and used unless the parents supply it and then could only be used if they can be fitted.
There is the three to two seats for U14 rule but only where seatbelts are not fitted.
this is why we were discussing it today, we said if they didn’t count as a passenger and you had 50 moms all with newborns 👀 that would be madness
but if you let one and 49 others wanted to how would you police that 🤷‍♂️
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