Quick question, if anyone know about some sort of legislation telling that planner can't plan 15h day for a drivers?

Share ideas, best practices, ask questions. No ads here.
Post Reply
Waacemin
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu May 04, 2023 2:39 pm

Quick question, if anyone know about some sort of legislation telling that planner can't plan 15h day for a drivers?

Post by Waacemin »

Quick question, if anyone know about some sort of legislation telling that planner can't plan 15h day for a drivers?
RupRune
Posts: 21
Joined: Thu May 04, 2023 9:01 am

Re: Quick question, if anyone know about some sort of legislation telling that planner can't plan 15h day for a drivers?

Post by RupRune »

No because it’s not true. No law against it. Depends on drivers contract 👍
pekeritzer43
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri May 05, 2023 11:11 am

Re: Quick question, if anyone know about some sort of legislation telling that planner can't plan 15h day for a drivers?

Post by pekeritzer43 »

There is nothing to say about a driver not being planned for a 15 hour shift or a 10 hour drive but the planner/TM must be aware they have a duty of care to that drivers wellbeing 🤷
A good planner/TM will try and give notice so the driver can prepare but nothing in the legislation to say they have to, except the HASAWA 1974.
If a driver says they're tired, it's game over for the planner on that shift but it also comes down to the drivers contract and this is where a lot of companies make big mistakes as a driver's employment contract is quite unique as it should cover the operator for circumstances like this👍
gorntuser40
Posts: 22
Joined: Thu May 04, 2023 9:02 am

Re: Quick question, if anyone know about some sort of legislation telling that planner can't plan 15h day for a drivers?

Post by gorntuser40 »

pekeritzer43 wrote: Sat May 06, 2023 2:26 pm There is nothing to say about a driver not being planned for a 15 hour shift or a 10 hour drive but the planner/TM must be aware they have a duty of care to that drivers wellbeing 🤷
A good planner/TM will try and give notice so the driver can prepare but nothing in the legislation to say they have to, except the HASAWA 1974.
If a driver says they're tired, it's game over for the planner on that shift but it also comes down to the drivers contract and this is where a lot of companies make big mistakes as a driver's employment contract is quite unique as it should cover the operator for circumstances like this👍
If you have the legal hours available they can be planned for. It’s that simple. The only ‘excuse’ a driver can use is that they are ‘tired’. But we all know that ‘excuse’ can’t be used EVERY time a driver doesn’t want to do a few extra hours……
RayDeluxe
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri May 05, 2023 11:14 am

Re: Quick question, if anyone know about some sort of legislation telling that planner can't plan 15h day for a drivers?

Post by RayDeluxe »

gorntuser40 wrote: Sat May 06, 2023 2:27 pm
pekeritzer43 wrote: Sat May 06, 2023 2:26 pm There is nothing to say about a driver not being planned for a 15 hour shift or a 10 hour drive but the planner/TM must be aware they have a duty of care to that drivers wellbeing 🤷
A good planner/TM will try and give notice so the driver can prepare but nothing in the legislation to say they have to, except the HASAWA 1974.
If a driver says they're tired, it's game over for the planner on that shift but it also comes down to the drivers contract and this is where a lot of companies make big mistakes as a driver's employment contract is quite unique as it should cover the operator for circumstances like this👍
If you have the legal hours available they can be planned for. It’s that simple. The only ‘excuse’ a driver can use is that they are ‘tired’. But we all know that ‘excuse’ can’t be used EVERY time a driver doesn’t want to do a few extra hours……
But 15 is work not driving hours. I'm interested in how anyone would think that would be the correct way to plan any work. One slight delay and it's game over.
MicJiggy
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu May 04, 2023 9:05 am

Re: Quick question, if anyone know about some sort of legislation telling that planner can't plan 15h day for a drivers?

Post by MicJiggy »

No legislation against it. It’s not a great idea for a variety of reasons but don’t let a driver tell you it’s against the law.
WatChypre
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri May 05, 2023 11:31 am

Re: Quick question, if anyone know about some sort of legislation telling that planner can't plan 15h day for a drivers?

Post by WatChypre »

You can plan to the regs, but take note they are limits!
Not targets!
Planning like this can also be deemed irresponsible… one accident and your just as liable!
bruGrabs
Posts: 21
Joined: Thu May 04, 2023 9:09 am

Re: Quick question, if anyone know about some sort of legislation telling that planner can't plan 15h day for a drivers?

Post by bruGrabs »

WatChypre wrote: Sat May 06, 2023 2:28 pm You can plan to the regs, but take note they are limits!
Not targets!
Planning like this can also be deemed irresponsible… one accident and your just as liable!
it can’t be deemed irresponsible because that would make the actual legislation “irresponsible”. As long as drivers are not tired and accept the length of shift, as an operator you are absolutely safe in that respect.
Happy to be corrected if I’m wrong but only with supporting evidence of operators being deemed irresponsible for planning 15hr days
WatChypre
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri May 05, 2023 11:31 am

Re: Quick question, if anyone know about some sort of legislation telling that planner can't plan 15h day for a drivers?

Post by WatChypre »

bruGrabs wrote: Sat May 06, 2023 2:28 pm
WatChypre wrote: Sat May 06, 2023 2:28 pm You can plan to the regs, but take note they are limits!
Not targets!
Planning like this can also be deemed irresponsible… one accident and your just as liable!
it can’t be deemed irresponsible because that would make the actual legislation “irresponsible”. As long as drivers are not tired and accept the length of shift, as an operator you are absolutely safe in that respect.
Happy to be corrected if I’m wrong but only with supporting evidence of operators being deemed irresponsible for planning 15hr days
no you are right. I know that..
But the TC also looks at responsible planning when an incident occurs… there are staff who will work to limits… but I couldn’t sleep at night knowing I have push push push all the time… for us 11hrs a day for tramping is acceptable… anymore then I’ll ask the drivers.. anything less than 11 then it’s because of customs, traffic or a driver actually saying I need to stop..
I could never face a drivers family if they were injured or killed through my ignorant and irresponsible planning or penny pinching ways.
Drivers are humans, this isn’t a sweat shop, trained professionals who we expect the best from… there is a reason footballers are subbed (apart from them being shite or a big pussy 😂 ) it’s to protect them…
Be responsible 24/7 or find another way to earn ££££
artMutivity
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri May 05, 2023 11:49 am

Re: Quick question, if anyone know about some sort of legislation telling that planner can't plan 15h day for a drivers?

Post by artMutivity »

The trouble is planners think they can plan a driver 5 x 15 most of the time!
bruGrabs
Posts: 21
Joined: Thu May 04, 2023 9:09 am

Re: Quick question, if anyone know about some sort of legislation telling that planner can't plan 15h day for a drivers?

Post by bruGrabs »

artMutivity wrote: Sat May 06, 2023 2:29 pm The trouble is planners think they can plan a driver 5 x 15 most of the time!
oh but they can. Especially popular when moving containers as a lot of tips are longer than 3hrs
ollCulver44
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri May 05, 2023 11:54 am

Re: Quick question, if anyone know about some sort of legislation telling that planner can't plan 15h day for a drivers?

Post by ollCulver44 »

bruGrabs wrote: Sat May 06, 2023 2:30 pm
artMutivity wrote: Sat May 06, 2023 2:29 pm The trouble is planners think they can plan a driver 5 x 15 most of the time!
oh but they can. Especially popular when moving containers as a lot of tips are longer than 3hrs
that’s where POA comes in
bruGrabs
Posts: 21
Joined: Thu May 04, 2023 9:09 am

Re: Quick question, if anyone know about some sort of legislation telling that planner can't plan 15h day for a drivers?

Post by bruGrabs »

ollCulver44 wrote: Sat May 06, 2023 2:30 pm
bruGrabs wrote: Sat May 06, 2023 2:30 pm
artMutivity wrote: Sat May 06, 2023 2:29 pm The trouble is planners think they can plan a driver 5 x 15 most of the time!
oh but they can. Especially popular when moving containers as a lot of tips are longer than 3hrs
that’s where POA comes in
that’s down to driver which mode will be used. My lads always stick on break since all of them mostly sleep during that time
ollCulver44
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri May 05, 2023 11:54 am

Re: Quick question, if anyone know about some sort of legislation telling that planner can't plan 15h day for a drivers?

Post by ollCulver44 »

bruGrabs wrote: Sat May 06, 2023 2:31 pm
ollCulver44 wrote: Sat May 06, 2023 2:30 pm
bruGrabs wrote: Sat May 06, 2023 2:30 pm

oh but they can. Especially popular when moving containers as a lot of tips are longer than 3hrs
that’s where POA comes in
that’s down to driver which mode will be used. My lads always stick on break since all of them mostly sleep during that time
yes I know
SimPride
Posts: 11
Joined: Thu May 04, 2023 9:18 am

Re: Quick question, if anyone know about some sort of legislation telling that planner can't plan 15h day for a drivers?

Post by SimPride »

bruGrabs wrote: Sat May 06, 2023 2:31 pm
ollCulver44 wrote: Sat May 06, 2023 2:30 pm
bruGrabs wrote: Sat May 06, 2023 2:30 pm

oh but they can. Especially popular when moving containers as a lot of tips are longer than 3hrs
that’s where POA comes in
that’s down to driver which mode will be used. My lads always stick on break since all of them mostly sleep during that time
If a driver has had a 3 hour REST when tipping then it’s technically a maximum 12 hour day when you think about it, so 5 x 15 remark still stands I think you’ll find. I’m happy to be corrected on this…
bruGrabs
Posts: 21
Joined: Thu May 04, 2023 9:09 am

Re: Quick question, if anyone know about some sort of legislation telling that planner can't plan 15h day for a drivers?

Post by bruGrabs »

SimPride wrote: Sat May 06, 2023 2:32 pm
bruGrabs wrote: Sat May 06, 2023 2:31 pm
ollCulver44 wrote: Sat May 06, 2023 2:30 pm

that’s where POA comes in
that’s down to driver which mode will be used. My lads always stick on break since all of them mostly sleep during that time
If a driver has had a 3 hour REST when tipping then it’s technically a maximum 12 hour day when you think about it, so 5 x 15 remark still stands I think you’ll find. I’m happy to be corrected on this…
while technically you could be right, the question was about planning. And from planner’s perspective it’s still a 15hrs shift
bruGrabs
Posts: 21
Joined: Thu May 04, 2023 9:09 am

Re: Quick question, if anyone know about some sort of legislation telling that planner can't plan 15h day for a drivers?

Post by bruGrabs »

SimPride wrote: Sat May 06, 2023 2:32 pm
bruGrabs wrote: Sat May 06, 2023 2:31 pm
ollCulver44 wrote: Sat May 06, 2023 2:30 pm

that’s where POA comes in
that’s down to driver which mode will be used. My lads always stick on break since all of them mostly sleep during that time
If a driver has had a 3 hour REST when tipping then it’s technically a maximum 12 hour day when you think about it, so 5 x 15 remark still stands I think you’ll find. I’m happy to be corrected on this…
followed by 9 off
denellu66
Posts: 9
Joined: Thu May 04, 2023 9:29 am

Re: Quick question, if anyone know about some sort of legislation telling that planner can't plan 15h day for a drivers?

Post by denellu66 »

bruGrabs wrote: Sat May 06, 2023 2:33 pm
SimPride wrote: Sat May 06, 2023 2:32 pm
bruGrabs wrote: Sat May 06, 2023 2:31 pm

that’s down to driver which mode will be used. My lads always stick on break since all of them mostly sleep during that time
If a driver has had a 3 hour REST when tipping then it’s technically a maximum 12 hour day when you think about it, so 5 x 15 remark still stands I think you’ll find. I’m happy to be corrected on this…
followed by 9 off
measured in a 24 hour period
SimPride
Posts: 11
Joined: Thu May 04, 2023 9:18 am

Re: Quick question, if anyone know about some sort of legislation telling that planner can't plan 15h day for a drivers?

Post by SimPride »

bruGrabs wrote: Sat May 06, 2023 2:33 pm
SimPride wrote: Sat May 06, 2023 2:32 pm
bruGrabs wrote: Sat May 06, 2023 2:31 pm

that’s down to driver which mode will be used. My lads always stick on break since all of them mostly sleep during that time
If a driver has had a 3 hour REST when tipping then it’s technically a maximum 12 hour day when you think about it, so 5 x 15 remark still stands I think you’ll find. I’m happy to be corrected on this…
followed by 9 off
Nope, 3 hours is a rest not a break so actually I think you’ll find it is not technically a 15 hour shift.
bruGrabs
Posts: 21
Joined: Thu May 04, 2023 9:09 am

Re: Quick question, if anyone know about some sort of legislation telling that planner can't plan 15h day for a drivers?

Post by bruGrabs »

SimPride wrote: Sat May 06, 2023 2:34 pm
bruGrabs wrote: Sat May 06, 2023 2:33 pm
SimPride wrote: Sat May 06, 2023 2:32 pm

If a driver has had a 3 hour REST when tipping then it’s technically a maximum 12 hour day when you think about it, so 5 x 15 remark still stands I think you’ll find. I’m happy to be corrected on this…
followed by 9 off
Nope, 3 hours is a rest not a break so actually I think you’ll find it is not technically a 15 hour shift.
again, from technicality point of view, you are correct.
From planners point of view you aren’t. Driver starts at 6am, 13hr day would finish at 7pm. Having 3hrs of rest while loading means that their day can end at 9pm - 15hrs after their start time.
The 3hr loading/unloading would’ve happened anyway.
Waacemin
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu May 04, 2023 2:39 pm

Re: Quick question, if anyone know about some sort of legislation telling that planner can't plan 15h day for a drivers?

Post by Waacemin »

bruGrabs wrote: Sat May 06, 2023 2:34 pm
SimPride wrote: Sat May 06, 2023 2:34 pm
bruGrabs wrote: Sat May 06, 2023 2:33 pm

followed by 9 off
Nope, 3 hours is a rest not a break so actually I think you’ll find it is not technically a 15 hour shift.
again, from technicality point of view, you are correct.
From planners point of view you aren’t. Driver starts at 6am, 13hr day would finish at 7pm. Having 3hrs of rest while loading means that their day can end at 9pm - 15hrs after their start time.
The 3hr loading/unloading would’ve happened anyway.
really? I spent yesterday 5h on loading bay, this is very often.
FosChalice
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri May 05, 2023 11:57 am

Re: Quick question, if anyone know about some sort of legislation telling that planner can't plan 15h day for a drivers?

Post by FosChalice »

I think you will find you are limited to driving hours for driving but additional work is not legislated as long as you keep within the Drivers working time directive.
That said if you have had drivers working long days and there is an accident expect to be grilled first by HSE then the TC, the first question will be along the lines of what policy and procedure is in place to keep the driver fresh and alert.
bruGrabs
Posts: 21
Joined: Thu May 04, 2023 9:09 am

Re: Quick question, if anyone know about some sort of legislation telling that planner can't plan 15h day for a drivers?

Post by bruGrabs »

There isn’t one. Been asked and discussed number of times
WalRaven
Posts: 16
Joined: Thu May 04, 2023 9:37 am

Re: Quick question, if anyone know about some sort of legislation telling that planner can't plan 15h day for a drivers?

Post by WalRaven »

I wonder why drivers don’t want to continue in this industry??
macPharos
Posts: 38
Joined: Fri May 05, 2023 12:00 pm

Re: Quick question, if anyone know about some sort of legislation telling that planner can't plan 15h day for a drivers?

Post by macPharos »

WalRaven wrote: Sat May 06, 2023 2:36 pm I wonder why drivers don’t want to continue in this industry??
15x5
75 times. £23 .00 per hour
£1725.00 plus £100,00 nights out
If a driver wants a 8 hr day and £1725.00 then he’s definitely in the wrong industry
ScoCuisse
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri May 05, 2023 12:10 pm

Re: Quick question, if anyone know about some sort of legislation telling that planner can't plan 15h day for a drivers?

Post by ScoCuisse »

Basically is such low not allowing from doing that, but it is some rules where says up to driver to decide because no body can force driver to work over his 13h.
GarElement
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu May 04, 2023 9:51 am

Re: Quick question, if anyone know about some sort of legislation telling that planner can't plan 15h day for a drivers?

Post by GarElement »

This really boils me!
They can plan you ANYTHING that is legal.
You can try and use HSE guidelines over fatigue, in that instance I would performance manage your workshy ass out the business, as you clearly aren't up to the job.
If you don't like the hours, hand your notice in, work your notice period, shake the bosses hand on you last day and leave as friends. Don't become a militant, cancerous personality.
Waacemin
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu May 04, 2023 2:39 pm

Re: Quick question, if anyone know about some sort of legislation telling that planner can't plan 15h day for a drivers?

Post by Waacemin »

GarElement wrote: Sat May 06, 2023 2:37 pm This really boils me!
They can plan you ANYTHING that is legal.
You can try and use HSE guidelines over fatigue, in that instance I would performance manage your workshy ass out the business, as you clearly aren't up to the job.
If you don't like the hours, hand your notice in, work your notice period, shake the bosses hand on you last day and leave as friends. Don't become a militant, cancerous personality.
you know what people like you boils me, that was easy enough question, everybody have different opinion but you need to be rude b*stard, like a turd in the bowl,
GarElement
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu May 04, 2023 9:51 am

Re: Quick question, if anyone know about some sort of legislation telling that planner can't plan 15h day for a drivers?

Post by GarElement »

Waacemin wrote: Sat May 06, 2023 2:38 pm
GarElement wrote: Sat May 06, 2023 2:37 pm This really boils me!
They can plan you ANYTHING that is legal.
You can try and use HSE guidelines over fatigue, in that instance I would performance manage your workshy ass out the business, as you clearly aren't up to the job.
If you don't like the hours, hand your notice in, work your notice period, shake the bosses hand on you last day and leave as friends. Don't become a militant, cancerous personality.
you know what people like you boils me, that was easy enough question, everybody have different opinion but you need to be rude b*stard, like a turd in the bowl,
I wasn't rude, I've actually been working hard on accepting people have different standards and allowing that.
You, however, have resorted to name calling. That's not cool. 👎
ollCulver44
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri May 05, 2023 11:54 am

Re: Quick question, if anyone know about some sort of legislation telling that planner can't plan 15h day for a drivers?

Post by ollCulver44 »

GarElement wrote: Sat May 06, 2023 2:37 pm This really boils me!
They can plan you ANYTHING that is legal.
You can try and use HSE guidelines over fatigue, in that instance I would performance manage your workshy ass out the business, as you clearly aren't up to the job.
If you don't like the hours, hand your notice in, work your notice period, shake the bosses hand on you last day and leave as friends. Don't become a militant, cancerous personality.
if I worked for someone like you, I’d happily walk away.
GarElement
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu May 04, 2023 9:51 am

Re: Quick question, if anyone know about some sort of legislation telling that planner can't plan 15h day for a drivers?

Post by GarElement »

ollCulver44 wrote: Sat May 06, 2023 2:39 pm
GarElement wrote: Sat May 06, 2023 2:37 pm This really boils me!
They can plan you ANYTHING that is legal.
You can try and use HSE guidelines over fatigue, in that instance I would performance manage your workshy ass out the business, as you clearly aren't up to the job.
If you don't like the hours, hand your notice in, work your notice period, shake the bosses hand on you last day and leave as friends. Don't become a militant, cancerous personality.
if I worked for someone like you, I’d happily walk away.
and I'd hope we parted respectfully and on good terms 🙂
ollCulver44
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri May 05, 2023 11:54 am

Re: Quick question, if anyone know about some sort of legislation telling that planner can't plan 15h day for a drivers?

Post by ollCulver44 »

GarElement wrote: Sat May 06, 2023 2:39 pm
ollCulver44 wrote: Sat May 06, 2023 2:39 pm
GarElement wrote: Sat May 06, 2023 2:37 pm This really boils me!
They can plan you ANYTHING that is legal.
You can try and use HSE guidelines over fatigue, in that instance I would performance manage your workshy ass out the business, as you clearly aren't up to the job.
If you don't like the hours, hand your notice in, work your notice period, shake the bosses hand on you last day and leave as friends. Don't become a militant, cancerous personality.
if I worked for someone like you, I’d happily walk away.
and I'd hope we parted respectfully and on good terms 🙂
hardly with your attitude
GarElement
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu May 04, 2023 9:51 am

Re: Quick question, if anyone know about some sort of legislation telling that planner can't plan 15h day for a drivers?

Post by GarElement »

ollCulver44 wrote: Sat May 06, 2023 2:40 pm
GarElement wrote: Sat May 06, 2023 2:39 pm
ollCulver44 wrote: Sat May 06, 2023 2:39 pm

if I worked for someone like you, I’d happily walk away.
and I'd hope we parted respectfully and on good terms 🙂
hardly with your attitude
luckily, I'm not recruiting
anthXyston
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri May 05, 2023 12:21 pm

Re: Quick question, if anyone know about some sort of legislation telling that planner can't plan 15h day for a drivers?

Post by anthXyston »

561/2006 .....Article 10
Not exactly what you've asked for, but daily 'daily rest requirements' are what caps a single driver shift at 15 hours,...article 10 says (among other things) that an operator must plan the work of drivers in such a way that the driver is able to comply with the daily rest requirements (and the other limits set in these regs)
memoirMar
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu May 04, 2023 10:05 am

Re: Quick question, if anyone know about some sort of legislation telling that planner can't plan 15h day for a drivers?

Post by memoirMar »

Tell him to take his overnight gear. Thinks rarely go to plan in this game
Waacemin
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu May 04, 2023 2:39 pm

Re: Quick question, if anyone know about some sort of legislation telling that planner can't plan 15h day for a drivers?

Post by Waacemin »

andLazar11 wrote: Sat May 06, 2023 2:41 pm change job darling 🙂
it's not about me, was speaking with few drivers and everyone have different opinion and one told that there is a leg for that. For that reason I'm asking just being curious
JaySkillful
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu May 04, 2023 1:58 pm

Re: Quick question, if anyone know about some sort of legislation telling that planner can't plan 15h day for a drivers?

Post by JaySkillful »

andLazar11 wrote: Sat May 06, 2023 2:41 pm change job darling 🙂
who?
Waacemin
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu May 04, 2023 2:39 pm

Re: Quick question, if anyone know about some sort of legislation telling that planner can't plan 15h day for a drivers?

Post by Waacemin »

JaySkillful wrote: Sat May 06, 2023 2:42 pm
andLazar11 wrote: Sat May 06, 2023 2:41 pm change job darling 🙂
who?
not your business who.
JaySkillful
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu May 04, 2023 1:58 pm

Re: Quick question, if anyone know about some sort of legislation telling that planner can't plan 15h day for a drivers?

Post by JaySkillful »

Waacemin wrote: Sat May 06, 2023 2:43 pm
JaySkillful wrote: Sat May 06, 2023 2:42 pm
andLazar11 wrote: Sat May 06, 2023 2:41 pm change job darling 🙂
who?
not your business who.
I'm interested as to who andLzar11 suggests should be changing jobs?
Waacemin
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu May 04, 2023 2:39 pm

Re: Quick question, if anyone know about some sort of legislation telling that planner can't plan 15h day for a drivers?

Post by Waacemin »

JaySkillful wrote: Sat May 06, 2023 2:43 pm
Waacemin wrote: Sat May 06, 2023 2:43 pm
JaySkillful wrote: Sat May 06, 2023 2:42 pm

who?
not your business who.
I'm interested as to who andLzar11 suggests should be changing jobs?
to me I 🤔
JaySkillful
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu May 04, 2023 1:58 pm

Re: Quick question, if anyone know about some sort of legislation telling that planner can't plan 15h day for a drivers?

Post by JaySkillful »

Waacemin wrote: Sat May 06, 2023 2:44 pm
JaySkillful wrote: Sat May 06, 2023 2:43 pm
Waacemin wrote: Sat May 06, 2023 2:43 pm

not your business who.
I'm interested as to who andLzar11 suggests should be changing jobs?
to me I 🤔
I'd say he needs a little help with his attitude?
Waacemin
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu May 04, 2023 2:39 pm

Re: Quick question, if anyone know about some sort of legislation telling that planner can't plan 15h day for a drivers?

Post by Waacemin »

JaySkillful wrote: Sat May 06, 2023 2:44 pm
Waacemin wrote: Sat May 06, 2023 2:44 pm
JaySkillful wrote: Sat May 06, 2023 2:43 pm

I'm interested as to who andLzar11 suggests should be changing jobs?
to me I 🤔
I'd say he needs a little help with his attitude?
I agree
KevKeyman
Posts: 15
Joined: Thu May 04, 2023 10:10 am

Re: Quick question, if anyone know about some sort of legislation telling that planner can't plan 15h day for a drivers?

Post by KevKeyman »

As long as you are taking Into consideration 561/2006 plan him how you like
The myth that it is down to the driver to decide if he wants to reduce his daily rest is lies.
pekeritzer43
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri May 05, 2023 11:11 am

Re: Quick question, if anyone know about some sort of legislation telling that planner can't plan 15h day for a drivers?

Post by pekeritzer43 »

Please can we have some professionalism.
If people want to start their 💩 with this is wrong industry for you bull 💩 then I'll start and I'll make you look a complete prick so behave👍
IanWayment
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri May 05, 2023 12:27 pm

Re: Quick question, if anyone know about some sort of legislation telling that planner can't plan 15h day for a drivers?

Post by IanWayment »

As far as I was aware you could only plan a max 12 day, that’s all I would ever plan for, this gives scope for traffic, unloading delays etc
ashFortune
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu May 04, 2023 10:43 am

Re: Quick question, if anyone know about some sort of legislation telling that planner can't plan 15h day for a drivers?

Post by ashFortune »

If they are planning you for max hours are they pushing you? If they are pushing you to rush to get your work done it then becomes a health and safety issue
bruGrabs
Posts: 21
Joined: Thu May 04, 2023 9:09 am

Re: Quick question, if anyone know about some sort of legislation telling that planner can't plan 15h day for a drivers?

Post by bruGrabs »

ashFortune wrote: Sat May 06, 2023 2:46 pm If they are planning you for max hours are they pushing you? If they are pushing you to rush to get your work done it then becomes a health and safety issue
but they can’t really push you tho. They can plan 24hrs shift but it doesn’t mean that neither it will happen nor that you are obligated to do it. You can only do as much as you can within the timeframe
ashFortune
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu May 04, 2023 10:43 am

Re: Quick question, if anyone know about some sort of legislation telling that planner can't plan 15h day for a drivers?

Post by ashFortune »

bruGrabs wrote: Sat May 06, 2023 2:47 pm
ashFortune wrote: Sat May 06, 2023 2:46 pm If they are planning you for max hours are they pushing you? If they are pushing you to rush to get your work done it then becomes a health and safety issue
but they can’t really push you tho. They can plan 24hrs shift but it doesn’t mean that neither it will happen nor that you are obligated to do it. You can only do as much as you can within the timeframe
trust me after 27 years as a driver they can and do push you
Ie we have day cabs the traffic office planned for 10 hour drives and pushed the drivers to complete the day's work even tho they had run into traffic earlier in the day
As soon as a driver feels pushed to complete the work given it then becomes a health and safety matter
bruGrabs
Posts: 21
Joined: Thu May 04, 2023 9:09 am

Re: Quick question, if anyone know about some sort of legislation telling that planner can't plan 15h day for a drivers?

Post by bruGrabs »

ashFortune wrote: Sat May 06, 2023 2:47 pm
bruGrabs wrote: Sat May 06, 2023 2:47 pm
ashFortune wrote: Sat May 06, 2023 2:46 pm If they are planning you for max hours are they pushing you? If they are pushing you to rush to get your work done it then becomes a health and safety issue
but they can’t really push you tho. They can plan 24hrs shift but it doesn’t mean that neither it will happen nor that you are obligated to do it. You can only do as much as you can within the timeframe
trust me after 27 years as a driver they can and do push you
Ie we have day cabs the traffic office planned for 10 hour drives and pushed the drivers to complete the day's work even tho they had run into traffic earlier in the day
As soon as a driver feels pushed to complete the work given it then becomes a health and safety matter
it’s up to the driver to judge if they have sufficient time to complete their tasks and come back to base. If you don’t have enough time, you just bring unit back to the yard.
Although I know what you are saying and seen some shady stuff go down in one company delivering frozen goods where planners used to plan it so tight that day drivers used to night out couple times a week, but only those who would “take it on a chin” others used to bring their units back with zero care. And especially over last few years things have changed quite dramatically in terms of drivers having final say on what they can or can’t do
ashFortune
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu May 04, 2023 10:43 am

Re: Quick question, if anyone know about some sort of legislation telling that planner can't plan 15h day for a drivers?

Post by ashFortune »

bruGrabs wrote: Sat May 06, 2023 2:48 pm
ashFortune wrote: Sat May 06, 2023 2:47 pm
bruGrabs wrote: Sat May 06, 2023 2:47 pm

but they can’t really push you tho. They can plan 24hrs shift but it doesn’t mean that neither it will happen nor that you are obligated to do it. You can only do as much as you can within the timeframe
trust me after 27 years as a driver they can and do push you
Ie we have day cabs the traffic office planned for 10 hour drives and pushed the drivers to complete the day's work even tho they had run into traffic earlier in the day
As soon as a driver feels pushed to complete the work given it then becomes a health and safety matter
it’s up to the driver to judge if they have sufficient time to complete their tasks and come back to base. If you don’t have enough time, you just bring unit back to the yard.
Although I know what you are saying and seen some shady stuff go down in one company delivering frozen goods where planners used to plan it so tight that day drivers used to night out couple times a week, but only those who would “take it on a chin” others used to bring their units back with zero care. And especially over last few years things have changed quite dramatically in terms of drivers having final say on what they can or can’t do
problem is you can only take a unit back with zero care so many times before you are next to go
Having been on both sides I've seen drivers get pushed to complete the work they have been given
And also had planners try to push me guess which Outlook I took
CharRiqq
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri May 05, 2023 12:39 pm

Re: Quick question, if anyone know about some sort of legislation telling that planner can't plan 15h day for a drivers?

Post by CharRiqq »

Did you ask the drivers if they want to work 15 hours
UpBright
Posts: 16
Joined: Thu May 04, 2023 10:48 am

Re: Quick question, if anyone know about some sort of legislation telling that planner can't plan 15h day for a drivers?

Post by UpBright »

No such thing. Legislation says work can be planned as long as it is legal and adheres to driver's hours..
deeWise5
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu May 04, 2023 10:52 am

Re: Quick question, if anyone know about some sort of legislation telling that planner can't plan 15h day for a drivers?

Post by deeWise5 »

The Drivers Regs EU 561/2006 rule says 9hrs driving may extended to 10hrs and 11hrs rest may be reduced reduced to 9hrs. This is is at drivers discretion.
So the answer is no you can't plan for a 15hr day
13hrs max allowing for 11hr rest period.
15hrs is for delays in loading and traffic.
If there is planner doing that then he needs retraining.
Obviously the planner is under the supervision of the TM and he needs reporting for not taking consideration the Eu 561/2006 as written.
The way you get around that is if the driver has 3hr rest en bloc within his 15hr shift followed by a 9hr and must completed within a 24hr working day.
You'll find container companies use this pattern where it can take over 3 hrs to tip but the unit must be disconnected from the trailer.
bruGrabs
Posts: 21
Joined: Thu May 04, 2023 9:09 am

Re: Quick question, if anyone know about some sort of legislation telling that planner can't plan 15h day for a drivers?

Post by bruGrabs »

deeWise5 wrote: Sat May 06, 2023 2:50 pm The Drivers Regs EU 561/2006 rule says 9hrs driving may extended to 10hrs and 11hrs rest may be reduced reduced to 9hrs. This is is at drivers discretion.
So the answer is no you can't plan for a 15hr day
13hrs max allowing for 11hr rest period.
15hrs is for delays in loading and traffic.
If there is planner doing that then he needs retraining.
Obviously the planner is under the supervision of the TM and he needs reporting for not taking consideration the Eu 561/2006 as written.
The way you get around that is if the driver has 3hr rest en bloc within his 15hr shift followed by a 9hr and must completed within a 24hr working day.
You'll find container companies use this pattern where it can take over 3 hrs to tip but the unit must be disconnected from the trailer.
it doesn’t say in legislation that you can’t plan for 15hr day.
Also it doesn’t say that unit has to be uncoupled either.
bruGrabs
Posts: 21
Joined: Thu May 04, 2023 9:09 am

Re: Quick question, if anyone know about some sort of legislation telling that planner can't plan 15h day for a drivers?

Post by bruGrabs »

deeWise5 wrote: Sat May 06, 2023 2:50 pm The Drivers Regs EU 561/2006 rule says 9hrs driving may extended to 10hrs and 11hrs rest may be reduced reduced to 9hrs. This is is at drivers discretion.
So the answer is no you can't plan for a 15hr day
13hrs max allowing for 11hr rest period.
15hrs is for delays in loading and traffic.
If there is planner doing that then he needs retraining.
Obviously the planner is under the supervision of the TM and he needs reporting for not taking consideration the Eu 561/2006 as written.
The way you get around that is if the driver has 3hr rest en bloc within his 15hr shift followed by a 9hr and must completed within a 24hr working day.
You'll find container companies use this pattern where it can take over 3 hrs to tip but the unit must be disconnected from the trailer.
I’ll go as far say that it doesn’t say that 15hr day is at drivers discretion.
The only discretion driver has is to say that they are tired. But you can only say that so many times before you can be pulled in to assess your suitability for the job.
deeWise5
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu May 04, 2023 10:52 am

Re: Quick question, if anyone know about some sort of legislation telling that planner can't plan 15h day for a drivers?

Post by deeWise5 »

bruGrabs wrote: Sat May 06, 2023 2:50 pm
deeWise5 wrote: Sat May 06, 2023 2:50 pm The Drivers Regs EU 561/2006 rule says 9hrs driving may extended to 10hrs and 11hrs rest may be reduced reduced to 9hrs. This is is at drivers discretion.
So the answer is no you can't plan for a 15hr day
13hrs max allowing for 11hr rest period.
15hrs is for delays in loading and traffic.
If there is planner doing that then he needs retraining.
Obviously the planner is under the supervision of the TM and he needs reporting for not taking consideration the Eu 561/2006 as written.
The way you get around that is if the driver has 3hr rest en bloc within his 15hr shift followed by a 9hr and must completed within a 24hr working day.
You'll find container companies use this pattern where it can take over 3 hrs to tip but the unit must be disconnected from the trailer.
I’ll go as far say that it doesn’t say that 15hr day is at drivers discretion.
The only discretion driver has is to say that they are tired. But you can only say that so many times before you can be pulled in to assess your suitability for the job.
You have to take in consideration on the Driving periods and daily rest periods. Its up to the driver if he uses the extra. A drivers standard shift is 13hrs... I been a driver, Union rep, TM and Business owner, Seen it all!
Regarding the uncoupling. You are not at rest if your vehicle is being unloaded and your in the vehicle.
For the 3hr period you need access to a bunk. Vosa will fine your driver if caught.
Ie they will sit outside an RDC and watch and wait. Then they'll mess your day up.
Happens many at time up at Haydock and Crick Safest way uncouple and park up..
DavJunco
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri May 05, 2023 1:05 pm

Re: Quick question, if anyone know about some sort of legislation telling that planner can't plan 15h day for a drivers?

Post by DavJunco »

Work has to be done ! A good planner would plan shorter days towards end of week
graatex07
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu May 04, 2023 2:04 pm

Re: Quick question, if anyone know about some sort of legislation telling that planner can't plan 15h day for a drivers?

Post by graatex07 »

There's no way any driver should be planned for a 15 hour day . Traffic delays , accidents filling up delays on site all need to be accounted for so if you plan from A-B -C-D etc and have all 15 hours taken up guaranteed the run wont be completed unless the driver breaks the law.
PadFreex
Posts: 5
Joined: Thu May 04, 2023 11:03 am

Re: Quick question, if anyone know about some sort of legislation telling that planner can't plan 15h day for a drivers?

Post by PadFreex »

Tell the driver to do as they are told. The company pays the wages and the truck won’t make money if it’s parked up.
Waacemin
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu May 04, 2023 2:39 pm

Re: Quick question, if anyone know about some sort of legislation telling that planner can't plan 15h day for a drivers?

Post by Waacemin »

PadFreex wrote: Sat May 06, 2023 2:52 pm Tell the driver to do as they are told. The company pays the wages and the truck won’t make money if it’s parked up.
I would not like to be under you. I agree however there are different circumstances, maybe driver don't feel very well or is sick or just tired because was doing the day before 15h, you need to think about that also
PadFreex
Posts: 5
Joined: Thu May 04, 2023 11:03 am

Re: Quick question, if anyone know about some sort of legislation telling that planner can't plan 15h day for a drivers?

Post by PadFreex »

Waacemin wrote: Sat May 06, 2023 2:53 pm
PadFreex wrote: Sat May 06, 2023 2:52 pm Tell the driver to do as they are told. The company pays the wages and the truck won’t make money if it’s parked up.
I would not like to be under you. I agree however there are different circumstances, maybe driver don't feel very well or is sick or just tired because was doing the day before 15h, you need to think about that also
working in the haulage industry the truck needs to make money. If a driver refuses to work to his legal hours then he is in the wrong job.
As an employer, would you employ a driver that refused to work?
Waacemin
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu May 04, 2023 2:39 pm

Re: Quick question, if anyone know about some sort of legislation telling that planner can't plan 15h day for a drivers?

Post by Waacemin »

PadFreex wrote: Sat May 06, 2023 2:53 pm
Waacemin wrote: Sat May 06, 2023 2:53 pm
PadFreex wrote: Sat May 06, 2023 2:52 pm Tell the driver to do as they are told. The company pays the wages and the truck won’t make money if it’s parked up.
I would not like to be under you. I agree however there are different circumstances, maybe driver don't feel very well or is sick or just tired because was doing the day before 15h, you need to think about that also
working in the haulage industry the truck needs to make money. If a driver refuses to work to his legal hours then he is in the wrong job.
As an employer, would you employ a driver that refused to work?
yes I would if that would be a good driver that is giving everything the best from him/her, for me customer care and happy driver is everything because then image of the company is showing that drivers are happy in place they work. If one driver will say no for 15h because lest say he or she is not feeling well then ask another driver
matvanami89
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu May 04, 2023 1:36 pm

Re: Quick question, if anyone know about some sort of legislation telling that planner can't plan 15h day for a drivers?

Post by matvanami89 »

Waacemin wrote: Sat May 06, 2023 2:54 pm
PadFreex wrote: Sat May 06, 2023 2:53 pm
Waacemin wrote: Sat May 06, 2023 2:53 pm

I would not like to be under you. I agree however there are different circumstances, maybe driver don't feel very well or is sick or just tired because was doing the day before 15h, you need to think about that also
working in the haulage industry the truck needs to make money. If a driver refuses to work to his legal hours then he is in the wrong job.
As an employer, would you employ a driver that refused to work?
yes I would if that would be a good driver that is giving everything the best from him/her, for me customer care and happy driver is everything because then image of the company is showing that drivers are happy in place they work. If one driver will say no for 15h because lest say he or she is not feeling well then ask another driver
well said on this one. Why should someone work 45 hours in 3 days when for example, I do 36-40 hours in one week, the poor driver will have already done this by day 3. Drivers eventually break when made to work excessive hours, its a shame certain parts of our industry treats them as a disposable commodity then when they do break, will bring in another person to work the 60 hour weeks without thinking twice. I haven’t driven for a long time now and when I did very occasionally drive, it was in a line of the industry where respect was a given, Livestock Haulage to be precise. If only this approach could be given across the market as a whole.
Waacemin
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu May 04, 2023 2:39 pm

Re: Quick question, if anyone know about some sort of legislation telling that planner can't plan 15h day for a drivers?

Post by Waacemin »

matvanami89 wrote: Sat May 06, 2023 2:54 pm
Waacemin wrote: Sat May 06, 2023 2:54 pm
PadFreex wrote: Sat May 06, 2023 2:53 pm

working in the haulage industry the truck needs to make money. If a driver refuses to work to his legal hours then he is in the wrong job.
As an employer, would you employ a driver that refused to work?
yes I would if that would be a good driver that is giving everything the best from him/her, for me customer care and happy driver is everything because then image of the company is showing that drivers are happy in place they work. If one driver will say no for 15h because lest say he or she is not feeling well then ask another driver
well said on this one. Why should someone work 45 hours in 3 days when for example, I do 36-40 hours in one week, the poor driver will have already done this by day 3. Drivers eventually break when made to work excessive hours, its a shame certain parts of our industry treats them as a disposable commodity then when they do break, will bring in another person to work the 60 hour weeks without thinking twice. I haven’t driven for a long time now and when I did very occasionally drive, it was in a line of the industry where respect was a given, Livestock Haulage to be precise. If only this approach could be given across the market as a whole.
even in livestock now is hard for drivers
Post Reply

Return to “Transport managers | General discussions”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests