Pulled into office for a WTD infringement. Am I wrong? Have I argued with my TM & other staff members for no reason?

[Partell.Xion]

Pulled into office for a WTD infringement.
Am I wrong?
Started 08:30 worked until 11:50 took a 15 minute break (before 6 hours) worked until 15:45 30 minute break (between 6-9 hours working) finished work at 16.45.
Have I argued with my TM & other staff members for no reason?

[gilnone04]

What's the point in arguing its just sign a piece of paper and carry on

[Partell.Xion]

What's the point in arguing its just sign a piece of paper and carry on

he wasn't explaining why it was an i insufficient break and I was convinced I was in the right, only argued because his attitude towards me the last couple days

[Taggon]

What reason did they give?
I can’t see anything wrong with what you’ve done unless you’ve gone over 4:30 driving time before taking your half an hour

[Ianarin848]

What reason did they give?
I can’t see anything wrong with what you’ve done unless you’ve gone over 4:30 driving time before taking your half an hour

the driving time would be the only one I could see also.

[Partell.Xion]

What reason did they give?
I can’t see anything wrong with what you’ve done unless you’ve gone over 4:30 driving time before taking your half an hour

insufficient break - multi drop just over 3 hour 37 minute driving whole day

[Taggon]

What reason did they give?
I can’t see anything wrong with what you’ve done unless you’ve gone over 4:30 driving time before taking your half an hour

insufficient break - multi drop just over 3 hour 37 minute driving whole day

it looks like they’re wrong then mate

[Fordco]

What reason did they give?
I can’t see anything wrong with what you’ve done unless you’ve gone over 4:30 driving time before taking your half an hour

insufficient break - multi drop just over 3 hour 37 minute driving whole day

maybe you made a mistake on your manual entry?

[iann+unde]

What reason did they give?
I can’t see anything wrong with what you’ve done unless you’ve gone over 4:30 driving time before taking your half an hour

insufficient break - multi drop just over 3 hour 37 minute driving whole day

maybe you made a mistake on your manual entry?

don't need to do manual entry. Tacho card head can still read the card. So. There may be a possibility his starting time may be wrong.

[Fordco]

insufficient break - multi drop just over 3 hour 37 minute driving whole day

maybe you made a mistake on your manual entry?

don't need to do manual entry. Tacho card head can still read the card. So. There may be a possibility his starting time may be wrong.

why doesn't he need to?

[iann+unde]

maybe you made a mistake on your manual entry?

don't need to do manual entry. Tacho card head can still read the card. So. There may be a possibility his starting time may be wrong.

why doesn't he need to?

manual entry doesn't mean anything. To be honest. You put your card in. The head until will know what time he put in the card his work Time and driving time .his break time.

[Fordco]

don't need to do manual entry. Tacho card head can still read the card. So. There may be a possibility his starting time may be wrong.

why doesn't he need to?

manual entry doesn't mean anything. To be honest. You put your card in. The head until will know what time he put in the card his work Time and driving time .his break time.

if he put his card in at 0830 but accidentally put his start time at 0530 for example, then he would get an infringement

[iann+unde]

why doesn't he need to?

manual entry doesn't mean anything. To be honest. You put your card in. The head until will know what time he put in the card his work Time and driving time .his break time.

if he put his card in at 0830 but accidentally put his start time at 0530 for example, then he would get an infringement

if he accidentally put 05.30 then yes. But the head until know he put his card in the unit at 8.30. But he said started at 8.30 am. He didn't say he put his card in any earlier. Unless he not telling the full story

[Fordco]

manual entry doesn't mean anything. To be honest. You put your card in. The head until will know what time he put in the card his work Time and driving time .his break time.

if he put his card in at 0830 but accidentally put his start time at 0530 for example, then he would get an infringement

if he accidentally put 05.30 then yes. But the head until know he put his card in the unit at 8.30. But he said started at 8.30 am. He didn't say he put his card in any earlier. Unless he not telling the full story

doesn't matter what time you put your card in if you tell it you started earlier

[Taggon]

if he put his card in at 0830 but accidentally put his start time at 0530 for example, then he would get an infringement

if he accidentally put 05.30 then yes. But the head until know he put his card in the unit at 8.30. But he said started at 8.30 am. He didn't say he put his card in any earlier. Unless he not telling the full story

doesn't matter what time you put your card in if you tell it you started earlier

his entire shift was less than 9 hours

[tonism]

if he put his card in at 0830 but accidentally put his start time at 0530 for example, then he would get an infringement

if he accidentally put 05.30 then yes. But the head until know he put his card in the unit at 8.30. But he said started at 8.30 am. He didn't say he put his card in any earlier. Unless he not telling the full story

doesn't matter what time you put your card in if you tell it you started earlier

he had another 30 min break at 1545 so his breaks are fine.

[carleeli]

Yeah wasting time. Have ya 15 at 13.15 and you wouldn’t have needed another break.

[LUCENEKO]

Yeah wasting time. Have ya 15 at 13.15 and you wouldn’t have needed another break.

How do you work that out then as he went over the 6 hour wtd he’d need at least 30 minutes break total unless he was over his 4hrs 30 drive time

[kells1364]

Yeah wasting time. Have ya 15 at 13.15 and you wouldn’t have needed another break.

How do you work that out then as he went over the 6 hour wtd he’d need at least 30 minutes break total unless he was over his 4hrs 30 drive time

he didn’t need 30. He could’ve had a 15 anytime before the 6 was over to put his working time to 9 hrs. He finished before 9 hours was up.

[LUCENEKO]

Yeah wasting time. Have ya 15 at 13.15 and you wouldn’t have needed another break.

How do you work that out then as he went over the 6 hour wtd he’d need at least 30 minutes break total unless he was over his 4hrs 30 drive time

he didn’t need 30. He could’ve had a 15 anytime before the 6 was over to put his working time to 9 hrs. He finished before 9 hours was up.

read the comment below about the first 15mins which makes sense..

[Sionly]

What was the drive time at 15.45?

[Partell.Xion]

What was the drive time at 15.45?

multi drop only did 3 3 hours 37 minute driving the whole day

[Fordco]

Did they show you the infringement print out?

[Scoxan]

At 15.45 did you take a 15 or a 30 minute break?
If you only took 15 you'll get an Infringement.

[Partell.Xion]

At 15.45 did you take a 15 or a 30 minute break?
If you only took 15 you'll get an Infringement.

was a 33 minute break at 15:45

[tomfall]

At 15.45 did you take a 15 or a 30 minute break?
If you only took 15 you'll get an Infringement.

At 15:45 the driver had already gone past the WTD 6 hour threshold by an hour
Should have stopped @14:45

[mikvod]

At 15.45 did you take a 15 or a 30 minute break?
If you only took 15 you'll get an Infringement.

why?

[Willeyes]

At 15.45 did you take a 15 or a 30 minute break?
If you only took 15 you'll get an Infringement.

At 15:45 the driver had already gone past the WTD 6 hour threshold by an hour
Should have stopped @14:45

no - he said he took a 15 min break at 1150. WTD stipulates a max 6 hours work without a break of at least 15 mins. So he didn’t need to stop till before 1750.

[hubry1991]

Nothing wrong with that mate. All I can think of is maybe you changed from rest mode to other work mode on the tacho smack on the 15 minute mark and didn't register as a 15 break maybe? So didn't count? Did you go over by a minute or two? If you did then can't see the issue from your TM with those details you provided on here.
Did he show you or give you a print out of your infringement? Does the infringement show up on your tachomaster?

[Partell.Xion]

Nothing wrong with that mate. All I can think of is maybe you changed from rest mode to other work mode on the tacho smack on the 15 minute mark and didn't register as a 15 break maybe? So didn't count? Did you go over by a minute or two? If you did then can't see the issue from your TM with those details you provided on here.
Did he show you or give you a print out of your infringement? Does the infringement show up on your tachomaster?

breaks show on print out as 19 & 33 minutes

[hubry1991]

Nothing wrong with that mate. All I can think of is maybe you changed from rest mode to other work mode on the tacho smack on the 15 minute mark and didn't register as a 15 break maybe? So didn't count? Did you go over by a minute or two? If you did then can't see the issue from your TM with those details you provided on here.
Did he show you or give you a print out of your infringement? Does the infringement show up on your tachomaster?

breaks show on print out as 19 & 33 minutes

can't see nothing wrong with it then mate. Would even reset the driving time as well. Did he show you the infringement print out etc?

[Partell.Xion]

Nothing wrong with that mate. All I can think of is maybe you changed from rest mode to other work mode on the tacho smack on the 15 minute mark and didn't register as a 15 break maybe? So didn't count? Did you go over by a minute or two? If you did then can't see the issue from your TM with those details you provided on here.
Did he show you or give you a print out of your infringement? Does the infringement show up on your tachomaster?

breaks show on print out as 19 & 33 minutes

can't see nothing wrong with it then mate. Would even reset the driving time as well. Did he show you the infringement print out etc?

no he was just in as I was leaving yard I've to sign it tonight when I get back

[Partell.Xion]

At 15.45 did you take a 15 or a 30 minute break?
If you only took 15 you'll get an Infringement.

At 15:45 the driver had already gone past the WTD 6 hour threshold by an hour
Should have stopped @14:45

I was always led to believe 15 before within 6 hours of starting and another 15 minimum break between 6-9 for WTD normally have a 30 where I had my 15 that day but

[mikvod]

At 15.45 did you take a 15 or a 30 minute break?
If you only took 15 you'll get an Infringement.

At 15:45 the driver had already gone past the WTD 6 hour threshold by an hour
Should have stopped @14:45

and you teach DCPC? I hope you don’t and you’re just bigging yourself up. Where is it written that the first 15 only counts to Drive Time and not WTD? It counts for both as it’s a break from work.

[deandeec]

At 15.45 did you take a 15 or a 30 minute break?
If you only took 15 you'll get an Infringement.

At 15:45 the driver had already gone past the WTD 6 hour threshold by an hour
Should have stopped @14:45

and you teach DCPC? I hope you don’t and you’re just bigging yourself up. Where is it written that the first 15 only counts to Drive Time and not WTD? It counts for both as it’s a break from work.

I agree

[Fordco]

At 15:45 the driver had already gone past the WTD 6 hour threshold by an hour
Should have stopped @14:45

and you teach DCPC? I hope you don’t and you’re just bigging yourself up. Where is it written that the first 15 only counts to Drive Time and not WTD? It counts for both as it’s a break from work.

I agree

think he left the forum

[mikvod]

and you teach DCPC? I hope you don’t and you’re just bigging yourself up. Where is it written that the first 15 only counts to Drive Time and not WTD? It counts for both as it’s a break from work.

I agree

think he left the forum

there’s being wrong, then there’s everything and running away with your tail between your legs.

[Watersel]

I agree

think he left the forum

there’s being wrong, then there’s everything and running away with your tail between your legs.

is misinformation like his that causes half the problem.

[mikvod]

think he left the forum

there’s being wrong, then there’s everything and running away with your tail between your legs.

is misinformation like his that causes half the problem.

agreed. And when they say they teach DCPC or are a former Driver Trainer, new drivers tend to listen more closely and assume they know what they’re talking about. I was an Assessor and Trainer at my last place but I’ll only get involved when I know for sure and can back it up.

[mikvod]

At 15:45 the driver had already gone past the WTD 6 hour threshold by an hour
Should have stopped @14:45

and you teach DCPC? I hope you don’t and you’re just bigging yourself up. Where is it written that the first 15 only counts to Drive Time and not WTD? It counts for both as it’s a break from work.

I agree

seems so yeah. Now I look a fool arguing with no one! Thing is, if he came up with written proof I was wrong, I’d apologize and learn and admit I was wrong. I really hope he never taught DCPC. Mind you some of the crap I’ve heard on those it wouldn’t surprise me.

[deandeec]

and you teach DCPC? I hope you don’t and you’re just bigging yourself up. Where is it written that the first 15 only counts to Drive Time and not WTD? It counts for both as it’s a break from work.

I agree

seems so yeah. Now I look a fool arguing with no one! Thing is, if he came up with written proof I was wrong, I’d apologize and learn and admit I was wrong. I really hope he never taught DCPC. Mind you some of the crap I’ve heard on those it wouldn’t surprise me.

I said he was wrong as well, then he put some crap defending himself and then it was all gone. Just thought I couldn't see it now for some reason

[Bainsur]

Nothing wrong with that mate. All I can think of is maybe you changed from rest mode to other work mode on the tacho smack on the 15 minute mark and didn't register as a 15 break maybe? So didn't count? Did you go over by a minute or two? If you did then can't see the issue from your TM with those details you provided on here.
Did he show you or give you a print out of your infringement? Does the infringement show up on your tachomaster?

breaks show on print out as 19 & 33 minutes

no mate that 15 should be before your 6 hours is up..

[Willeyes]

and you teach DCPC? I hope you don’t and you’re just bigging yourself up. Where is it written that the first 15 only counts to Drive Time and not WTD? It counts for both as it’s a break from work.

I agree

seems so yeah. Now I look a fool arguing with no one! Thing is, if he came up with written proof I was wrong, I’d apologize and learn and admit I was wrong. I really hope he never taught DCPC. Mind you some of the crap I’ve heard on those it wouldn’t surprise me.

the annoying thing is that the wtd / driving hours regs are clear cut but idiots like to make up their own nonsensical spin on them. No wonder people get infringements when muppets are claiming to be a trainer and telling them the wrong info.

[deandeec]

Any driving in the work periods

[Partell.Xion]

Any driving in the work periods

3 hours 37 driving

[Partell.Xion]

Any driving in the work periods

the whole day

[LenoxFFang]

Don't see anything wrong. WTD you could have got away with two 15mins or a 30min before 6hrs of work. As long it was no more than 6 hrs before you finished

[aitkeny]

2 x 15 mins would have seen you right. If 4 h 30 driving not exceeded then 30m break in 1 hit not needed. I would aim to get 2 x 15mins break in within the 6 hours of work and then take 30 later to reset driving time. By taking 15 it extends the 6 hours from start of work to 6hr 15 so 2 nd 15 could be taken at 6h15

[rowVeronas]

You need to take a 30 minute break with in 6 hours for W.TD.
Start at noon take 30 minutes before 18.00 or you can split it to 2x 15 minute breaks as long as they are before 18.00.
If your not going to hit your 4.30 hours drive time in 6 hour then it’s mandatory you take the 30 minute break
The WTD is so poorly written, it leaves a lot of scope for misunderstandings

[davevix]

You need to take a 30 minute break with in 6 hours for W.TD.
Start at noon take 30 minutes before 18.00 or you can split it to 2x 15 minute breaks as long as they are before 18.00.
If your not going to hit your 4.30 hours drive time in 6 hour then it’s mandatory you take the 30 minute break
The WTD is so poorly written, it leaves a lot of scope for misunderstandings

No

[rowVeronas]

You need to take a 30 minute break with in 6 hours for W.TD.
Start at noon take 30 minutes before 18.00 or you can split it to 2x 15 minute breaks as long as they are before 18.00.
If your not going to hit your 4.30 hours drive time in 6 hour then it’s mandatory you take the 30 minute break
The WTD is so poorly written, it leaves a lot of scope for misunderstandings

No

I had 4 infringements in a row because of the 30 minute break. I always thought it was 15 and up to 6 hours, with tescos and Morrisons apparently not.
Had four as the infringements took time to process

[davevix]

You need to take a 30 minute break with in 6 hours for W.TD.
Start at noon take 30 minutes before 18.00 or you can split it to 2x 15 minute breaks as long as they are before 18.00.
If your not going to hit your 4.30 hours drive time in 6 hour then it’s mandatory you take the 30 minute break
The WTD is so poorly written, it leaves a lot of scope for misunderstandings

No

I had 4 infringements in a row because of the 30 minute break. I always thought it was 15 and up to 6 hours, with tescos and Morrisons apparently not.
Had four as the infringements took time to process

Maybe they have different rules but you still only legally need a 15 min break within 6hrs for WTD, working a total of 6 - 9 hours a 30min break total, which could be taken as 1 30 or 2 15's and over 9 hours a total of 45min in any combination to suit. I would challenge any infringement that said otherwise, you can't get infringements for not following internal policies.

[Watersel]

No

I had 4 infringements in a row because of the 30 minute break. I always thought it was 15 and up to 6 hours, with tescos and Morrisons apparently not.
Had four as the infringements took time to process

Maybe they have different rules but you still only legally need a 15 min break within 6hrs for WTD, working a total of 6 - 9 hours a 30min break total, which could be taken as 1 30 or 2 15's and over 9 hours a total of 45min in any combination to suit. I would challenge any infringement that said otherwise, you can't get infringements for not following internal policies.

what this man says! He is correct.

[victmy]

You need to take a 30 minute break with in 6 hours for W.TD.
Start at noon take 30 minutes before 18.00 or you can split it to 2x 15 minute breaks as long as they are before 18.00.
If your not going to hit your 4.30 hours drive time in 6 hour then it’s mandatory you take the 30 minute break
The WTD is so poorly written, it leaves a lot of scope for misunderstandings

no
It’s 15 min before 6 hours
Another 15 min before 9 hours
Eg: So if you had 3 hour on your driving time and you we’re getting close to your 9 hour working time you’d take a 45 min then you’d have cleared both.

[davevix]

You need to take a 30 minute break with in 6 hours for W.TD.
Start at noon take 30 minutes before 18.00 or you can split it to 2x 15 minute breaks as long as they are before 18.00.
If your not going to hit your 4.30 hours drive time in 6 hour then it’s mandatory you take the 30 minute break
The WTD is so poorly written, it leaves a lot of scope for misunderstandings

no
It’s 15 min before 6 hours
Another 15 min before 9 hours
Eg: So if you had 3 hour on your driving time and you we’re getting close to your 9 hour working time you’d take a 45 min then you’d have cleared both.

As soon as you've had a 15, the clock starts again and can work for up to another 6hrs. If working less than 9hrs, more than 6 you need a total of 30min break, and a total of 45min if over 9hrs.
If you have a 15 after 5hrs, your good to go till 11.15.
There's 2 rules, 1. Max 6hrs working need a min of a 15min break.
2. Total working time 6-9 30 min break in total, over 9 45min break in total, can be split into 15/30min slots.

[victmy]

You need to take a 30 minute break with in 6 hours for W.TD.
Start at noon take 30 minutes before 18.00 or you can split it to 2x 15 minute breaks as long as they are before 18.00.
If your not going to hit your 4.30 hours drive time in 6 hour then it’s mandatory you take the 30 minute break
The WTD is so poorly written, it leaves a lot of scope for misunderstandings

no
It’s 15 min before 6 hours
Another 15 min before 9 hours
Eg: So if you had 3 hour on your driving time and you we’re getting close to your 9 hour working time you’d take a 45 min then you’d have cleared both.

As soon as you've had a 15, the clock starts again and can work for up to another 6hrs. If working less than 9hrs, more than 6 you need a total of 30min break, and a total of 45min if over 9hrs.
If you have a 15 after 5hrs, your good to go till 11.15.
There's 2 rules, 1. Max 6hrs working need a min of a 15min break.
2. Total working time 6-9 30 min break in total, over 9 45min break in total, can be split into 15/30min slots.

I’m going to test this

[Nixol-Boby]

You need to take a 30 minute break with in 6 hours for W.TD.
Start at noon take 30 minutes before 18.00 or you can split it to 2x 15 minute breaks as long as they are before 18.00.
If your not going to hit your 4.30 hours drive time in 6 hour then it’s mandatory you take the 30 minute break
The WTD is so poorly written, it leaves a lot of scope for misunderstandings

no
It’s 15 min before 6 hours
Another 15 min before 9 hours
Eg: So if you had 3 hour on your driving time and you we’re getting close to your 9 hour working time you’d take a 45 min then you’d have cleared both.

As soon as you've had a 15, the clock starts again and can work for up to another 6hrs. If working less than 9hrs, more than 6 you need a total of 30min break, and a total of 45min if over 9hrs.
If you have a 15 after 5hrs, your good to go till 11.15.
There's 2 rules, 1. Max 6hrs working need a min of a 15min break.
2. Total working time 6-9 30 min break in total, over 9 45min break in total, can be split into 15/30min slots.

30mins for every 6 hours worked ETWD

[cob2anho]

You need to take a 30 minute break with in 6 hours for W.TD.
Start at noon take 30 minutes before 18.00 or you can split it to 2x 15 minute breaks as long as they are before 18.00.
If your not going to hit your 4.30 hours drive time in 6 hour then it’s mandatory you take the 30 minute break
The WTD is so poorly written, it leaves a lot of scope for misunderstandings

wrong

[Keithor]

...

[davectix]

As soon as 1st 15 min break is taken then that resets your working time so that means you could work for another 6hrs if wanted, if driving time of 4.5 hrs comes first before the 6 hr working time ends then you need to take a 30 min break to reset the drive time which also resets the working time.

[davevix]

Did you put on POA by mistake? Do a print out and share, will be easier to work out what happened.

[sammedi]

Can’t see an issue unless you mucked up your drive time. I do similar all the time as we mostly do with work

[IanwoDeam]

It is 15 mins inside 6 hours those who say different should not be driving

[mikvod]

From the way you’ve put it, you’re right. However, if it’s generated an infringement from the tacho reader then maybe it’s something else. Either way you’re right to not sign it if they’re not explaining to you what you’ve done so you understand.

[TelfoTelly]

So many bad answers on here. Makes you wonder how people keep their licences!

[csa+omett]

So many bad answers on here. Makes you wonder how people keep their licences!

teach us master

[Taggon]

So many bad answers on here. Makes you wonder how people keep their licences!

teach us master

he can’t, he’s left the group too now

[royer1992]

It's amazing there are so many trucks still on the road with all this conflicting information, did my theory/hazard/cpc on Monday and thought I'd cracked the wtd minefield but now I'm not so sure

[RenRenDo]

I can't see any infringement in there. You only needed to take 30 mins total break as you've only worked 7.5 hours (unless you needed the 45 for driving) and you didn't go over 6 hours work in any stretch. Seems perfectly legal.

[geilanda]

Another bloody post, first you need some b@@ls and after we can talk about it

[adstyle]

Another bloody post, first you need some b@@ls and after we can talk about it

maybe his/her employer monitor social media and they don’t want any further comeback?

[anthood]

Only thing I can see wrong there is if your first break didn't register as a full 15 break WTD, or you've gone over 4.5 hours drive time before taking your 30.

[sheeky]

he had a 15 minute break previously. So his total shift was less than 9h so a further 15 would be needed. Cant see why he has an infringement.

[sheeky]

Go to 9 min 20

[PhPauimpo]

Tell them to f÷ck off!