Hey guys, anyone got thoughts on gate checks, are they generally useful

[robilizar]

Hey guys, anyone got thoughts on gate checks, are they generally useful

[Waddex]

We do them and they do throw up a lot of things that’s otherwise might go unnoticed

[lesderx]

We do them,, they do throw things up,
And sadly not all drivers do their checks properly

[princern]

Gate checks are vital! The second after the first check the jungle drums are beating and miraculously the daily checks are being done properly. It’s amazing what happens when you turn up early the following day and just let slip that you can’t sleep! Try it.

[wintt4freen]

Gate checks are vital! The second after the first check the jungle drums are beating and miraculously the daily checks are being done properly. It’s amazing what happens when you turn up early the following day and just let slip that you can’t sleep! Try it.

gate checks always cause the jungle drums and panic.
Hide in your car so you can see the gates/yard, works far better! Don't have to confront drivers on the same day, if you suspect repeat offenders this is like an intermediate step! You can even start tagging vehicles and check drivers are checking that way too.

[Millsmo]

100% you would be surprised how many people don't record 15 mins other work on the wall around check

[jamsky]

100% you would be surprised how many people don't record 15 mins other work on the wall around check

this is not a legal requirement though?

[AndyAut]

100% you would be surprised how many people don't record 15 mins other work on the wall around check

this is not a legal requirement though?

but showing some time to complete it is… going from insert direct to drive would raise questions

[jamsky]

100% you would be surprised how many people don't record 15 mins other work on the wall around check

this is not a legal requirement though?

but showing some time to complete it is… going from insert direct to drive would raise questions

so how much time would you need to show if someone did it for you?
There is no legal requirement for a driver to show a specific period of other work designated for walk round checks, however drivers must record other work when doing them.
A driver of an artic is going to take longer than a flat bed 7.5t or a competent person can do them for you so this is the reason why a time is not specified.

[Millsmo]

100% you would be surprised how many people don't record 15 mins other work on the wall around check

this is not a legal requirement though?

but showing some time to complete it is… going from insert direct to drive would raise questions

a walk around check is a legal requirement and no time allotted to it is an easy way of falling in a tacho investigation or road side check.

[Millsmo]

this is not a legal requirement though?

but showing some time to complete it is… going from insert direct to drive would raise questions

so how much time would you need to show if someone did it for you?
There is no legal requirement for a driver to show a specific period of other work designated for walk round checks, however drivers must record other work when doing them.
A driver of an artic is going to take longer than a flat bed 7.5t or a competent person can do them for you so this is the reason why a time is not specified.

.

[Millsmo]

this is not a legal requirement though?

but showing some time to complete it is… going from insert direct to drive would raise questions

so how much time would you need to show if someone did it for you?
There is no legal requirement for a driver to show a specific period of other work designated for walk round checks, however drivers must record other work when doing them.
A driver of an artic is going to take longer than a flat bed 7.5t or a competent person can do them for you so this is the reason why a time is not specified.

.

[Millsmo]

this is not a legal requirement though?

but showing some time to complete it is… going from insert direct to drive would raise questions

so how much time would you need to show if someone did it for you?
There is no legal requirement for a driver to show a specific period of other work designated for walk round checks, however drivers must record other work when doing them.
A driver of an artic is going to take longer than a flat bed 7.5t or a competent person can do them for you so this is the reason why a time is not specified.

Clear cut from the gov web site, drivers must keep records of time spent carrying out other work. A walk around check is classed as other work. I don't understand why so many people want to try and push back against the simple stuff

[AndyAut]

this is not a legal requirement though?

but showing some time to complete it is… going from insert direct to drive would raise questions

so how much time would you need to show if someone did it for you?
There is no legal requirement for a driver to show a specific period of other work designated for walk round checks, however drivers must record other work when doing them.
A driver of an artic is going to take longer than a flat bed 7.5t or a competent person can do them for you so this is the reason why a time is not specified.

what ur saying is right and that’s most likely why no defined period has been given, and hence the need to gate check, as a TM myself I expect to see around 10 minutes other work but our app also backs up timings should questions be raised.

[jamsky]

but showing some time to complete it is… going from insert direct to drive would raise questions

so how much time would you need to show if someone did it for you?
There is no legal requirement for a driver to show a specific period of other work designated for walk round checks, however drivers must record other work when doing them.
A driver of an artic is going to take longer than a flat bed 7.5t or a competent person can do them for you so this is the reason why a time is not specified.

Clear cut from the gov web site, drivers must keep records of time spent carrying out other work. A walk around check is classed as other work. I don't understand why so many people want to try and push back against the simple stuff

you said it's surprising how many people don't do 15 minute's.
I'm saying there is no defined time period in Which you should carry out a walk round check. It varies from vehicle to vehicle, an experienced person Vs inexperienced. As long as other work has been recorded during your check then it doesn't matter how long it takes.

[jamsky]

but showing some time to complete it is… going from insert direct to drive would raise questions

so how much time would you need to show if someone did it for you?
There is no legal requirement for a driver to show a specific period of other work designated for walk round checks, however drivers must record other work when doing them.
A driver of an artic is going to take longer than a flat bed 7.5t or a competent person can do them for you so this is the reason why a time is not specified.

what ur saying is right and that’s most likely why no defined period has been given, and hence the need to gate check, as a TM myself I expect to see around 10 minutes other work but our app also backs up timings should questions be raised.

absolutely. There is no harm in requesting a specific duration for drivers to conduct their checks. I would also agree 10 to 15 mins is a good amount of time and anything less I would be questioning if a defect was found. I was pointing out that there is no legally defined duration

[Millsmo]

so how much time would you need to show if someone did it for you?
There is no legal requirement for a driver to show a specific period of other work designated for walk round checks, however drivers must record other work when doing them.
A driver of an artic is going to take longer than a flat bed 7.5t or a competent person can do them for you so this is the reason why a time is not specified.

Clear cut from the gov web site, drivers must keep records of time spent carrying out other work. A walk around check is classed as other work. I don't understand why so many people want to try and push back against the simple stuff

you said it's surprising how many people don't do 15 minute's.
I'm saying there is no defined time period in Which you should carry out a walk round check. It varies from vehicle to vehicle, an experienced person Vs inexperienced. As long as other work has been recorded during your check then it doesn't matter how long it takes.

seems like you have changed your tune a little here, at first in your own words you were saying it's not a legal requirement to show a walk around check and now your drilling down on times. I was highlighting that it suppressed me how many did record it correctly on my own gate checks, which has now been rectified thanks to the checks. The required time is pre defined by the company, me personally from the vehicles we work with I look for 15 mins. In my opinion if it takes less than that it's not be done correctly.

[jamsky]

Clear cut from the gov web site, drivers must keep records of time spent carrying out other work. A walk around check is classed as other work. I don't understand why so many people want to try and push back against the simple stuff

you said it's surprising how many people don't do 15 minute's.
I'm saying there is no defined time period in Which you should carry out a walk round check. It varies from vehicle to vehicle, an experienced person Vs inexperienced. As long as other work has been recorded during your check then it doesn't matter how long it takes.

seems like you have changed your tune a little here, at first in your own words you were saying it's not a legal requirement to show a walk around check and now your drilling down on times. I was highlighting that it suppressed me how many did record it correctly on my own gate checks, which has now been rectified thanks to the checks. The required time is pre defined by the company, me personally from the vehicles we work with I look for 15 mins. In my opinion if it takes less than that it's not be done correctly.

I haven't changed my tune, there is no legally defined duration, however I do agree with between 10 to 15 minutes as a good amount as a gauge. I was merely pointing out that we must be clear on What is required by law and what is company policy.

[Kingson]

Clear cut from the gov web site, drivers must keep records of time spent carrying out other work. A walk around check is classed as other work. I don't understand why so many people want to try and push back against the simple stuff

you said it's surprising how many people don't do 15 minute's.
I'm saying there is no defined time period in Which you should carry out a walk round check. It varies from vehicle to vehicle, an experienced person Vs inexperienced. As long as other work has been recorded during your check then it doesn't matter how long it takes.

seems like you have changed your tune a little here, at first in your own words you were saying it's not a legal requirement to show a walk around check and now your drilling down on times. I was highlighting that it suppressed me how many did record it correctly on my own gate checks, which has now been rectified thanks to the checks. The required time is pre defined by the company, me personally from the vehicles we work with I look for 15 mins. In my opinion if it takes less than that it's not be done correctly.

because it’s not a legal requirement to do 15 minutes.

[AmeeTinny]

Gate checks are an interesting one, I’ve never had a clear gate check but quite amusing watching a hoard of drivers rushing out checking their vehicles when you turn up unannounced and they still miss defects

[MwLLIERY]

Yes!!!!

[AndyAut]

Absolutely imperative… you wouldn’t believe the number of drivers do the tap tap tap or tick tick tick before leaving the gate… the biggest failure in many operators maintenance system is the drivers walk round check, remember they‘re checking the vehicle before it goes out on the road and it doesn’t matter how short your PMI period or low your mileage they all go wrong!!

[jamsky]

I have always done a gate audit rather than a check, it goes into far more detail than just defects. For every 10 I do I would say half have something on that I've pointed out. It's a great way of ensuring your driver's are checking and reporting defects, how else would you prove if asked how do you know your driver's are carrying out a defect check thoroughly.

[Russvillo]

10% of the fleet reach week of what is expected as a minimum

[jinChat]

10% of the fleet reach week of what is expected as a minimum

expected by who?

[Russvillo]

10% of the fleet reach week of what is expected as a minimum

expected by who?

Tc

[jinChat]

10% of the fleet reach week of what is expected as a minimum

expected by who?

Tc

evidence of that?

[Russvillo]

expected by who?

Tc

evidence of that?

as a TM you have a responsibility ro ensure walkaround checks are completed correctly by auditing or gatechecking. As a FORS Auditor. I'd expect to see at least 10% of the fleet inspected each week

[jinChat]

Tc

evidence of that?

as a TM you have a responsibility ro ensure walkaround checks are completed correctly by auditing or gatechecking. As a FORS Auditor. I'd expect to see at least 10% of the fleet inspected each week

what you expect to see isn't what you stated. You stated TC. Is there any documented evidence of that?
I completely agree with best practice, but also like to know what has been quoted and where it came from.

[Russvillo]

evidence of that?

as a TM you have a responsibility ro ensure walkaround checks are completed correctly by auditing or gatechecking. As a FORS Auditor. I'd expect to see at least 10% of the fleet inspected each week

what you expect to see isn't what you stated. You stated TC. Is there any documented evidence of that?
I completely agree with best practice, but also like to know what has been quoted and where it came from.

it's a standard undertaking of the o licence to ensure drivers correctly carry out Walkaround checks. Just because the word audit isnt used doesn't mean its not expected. The 10% per week is a anecdotal figure that I've been given by dvsa enforcement officers as well as The RHA on more than one training course.
Feel free to not do it, just don't expect to be employed by anyone other than a cowboy

[jinChat]

as a TM you have a responsibility ro ensure walkaround checks are completed correctly by auditing or gatechecking. As a FORS Auditor. I'd expect to see at least 10% of the fleet inspected each week

what you expect to see isn't what you stated. You stated TC. Is there any documented evidence of that?
I completely agree with best practice, but also like to know what has been quoted and where it came from.

it's a standard undertaking of the o licence to ensure drivers correctly carry out Walkaround checks. Just because the word audit isnt used doesn't mean its not expected. The 10% per week is a anecdotal figure that I've been given by dvsa enforcement officers as well as The RHA on more than one training course.
Feel free to not do it, just don't expect to be employed by anyone other than a cowboy

didn't say I do or don't, simply asked where the official guidance is to back up your original comment.

[mandiefy]

as a TM you have a responsibility ro ensure walkaround checks are completed correctly by auditing or gatechecking. As a FORS Auditor. I'd expect to see at least 10% of the fleet inspected each week

what you expect to see isn't what you stated. You stated TC. Is there any documented evidence of that?
I completely agree with best practice, but also like to know what has been quoted and where it came from.

it's a standard undertaking of the o licence to ensure drivers correctly carry out Walkaround checks. Just because the word audit isnt used doesn't mean its not expected. The 10% per week is a anecdotal figure that I've been given by dvsa enforcement officers as well as The RHA on more than one training course.
Feel free to not do it, just don't expect to be employed by anyone other than a cowboy

at last someone answered the question
Thank you

[pligwort]

what you expect to see isn't what you stated. You stated TC. Is there any documented evidence of that?
I completely agree with best practice, but also like to know what has been quoted and where it came from.

it's a standard undertaking of the o licence to ensure drivers correctly carry out Walkaround checks. Just because the word audit isnt used doesn't mean its not expected. The 10% per week is a anecdotal figure that I've been given by dvsa enforcement officers as well as The RHA on more than one training course.
Feel free to not do it, just don't expect to be employed by anyone other than a cowboy

didn't say I do or don't, simply asked where the official guidance is to back up your original comment.

No evidence necessary. 'Reasonableness' comes into all decisions and this is what would be considered 'reasonable'. Any less is likely to be considered 'unreasonable'.

[jinChat]

it's a standard undertaking of the o licence to ensure drivers correctly carry out Walkaround checks. Just because the word audit isnt used doesn't mean its not expected. The 10% per week is a anecdotal figure that I've been given by dvsa enforcement officers as well as The RHA on more than one training course.
Feel free to not do it, just don't expect to be employed by anyone other than a cowboy

didn't say I do or don't, simply asked where the official guidance is to back up your original comment.

No evidence necessary. 'Reasonableness' comes into all decisions and this is what would be considered 'reasonable'. Any less is likely to be considered 'unreasonable'.

what is reasonable to one is very different to another. Hence the reason we have Statutory Guidance and other official guidance.

[jinChat]

what you expect to see isn't what you stated. You stated TC. Is there any documented evidence of that?
I completely agree with best practice, but also like to know what has been quoted and where it came from.

it's a standard undertaking of the o licence to ensure drivers correctly carry out Walkaround checks. Just because the word audit isnt used doesn't mean its not expected. The 10% per week is a anecdotal figure that I've been given by dvsa enforcement officers as well as The RHA on more than one training course.
Feel free to not do it, just don't expect to be employed by anyone other than a cowboy

at last someone answered the question
Thank you

there is no undertaking stating walk round checks. There is an undertaking that drivers must promptly report defects. Clearly that relates to carrying out effective checks.
This is clear in Statutory Document 3 and on TM1 form.
People post their own interpretation.
Now someone has answered the question, correctly.

[grayyOld]

DVSA requirement, you'll get pulled up hard if they're not in place!

[rouxell]

Edited for poor spelling!
1 have a minibus operator which I like show lead in of around 10 minutes.
My HGV operators tend to show around 5 on the unit before going to the trailer park and then time checking the trailers.
It’s already been said, it depends on the vehicle and nature of the operation, but I’d always expect to see some lead in when the driver is responsible for the walk around.
But the question asked was are gate checks useful, and my opinion is yes, for a number of reasons:
1- I can confirm a check has been done and spot check for defects
2- I can check load security
3- I can confirm the driver has 28 days of records
4- I’m actually managing my drivers compliance rather than just assuming everything is okay

[GreGreed]

Yes.

[stevetime61]

I do gate checks however not as many as I should do but I do insist and I cross check it that any vehicle that goes in for PMI and has a defect that should of been captured on daily walk round is brought to my attention and I deal with it

[Cox.Talented]

100% cover your arse as well. It shows you are putting procedures in place.

[parkerycer]

Definitely all the time just keeps everyone on their toes helps protecting the O licence and keeping everyone in the job nice little reminders, & refreshes for everyone

[OliverroMr]

When you get checked, the powers that be LOVE gate checks, saved me a load of ballache

[Frankho]

Handy if the clown carrying out gate check knows what he’s looking for but a lot of them don’t

[leannero]

Ask Gamal Musbah Alznati

[Waynebu]

interesting question, the TC wants to see them to make sure you are checking up that drivers are doing the checks and not just ticking the boxes. If drivers know you are doing them they will of course not want to be caught out. So yes they are useful as when you go to a PI they may be asked for.

[BillStill]

Absolutely vital!