I am a transport manager and occasionally drive can i keep my records on my weekly time sheet of my activities when

[AndryUrman]

I am a transport manager and occasionally drive can i keep my records on my weekly time sheet of my activities when not driving or do i need to do manual entries when i insert tacho i may only drive once in a fortnight only very short journeys

[KAILLACE]

Manual entries

[Iainto]

Manual entries

not manual entries on a digital tacho head, a manual record is enough. If driving within a set working week then a manual entry for each day is preferred. But if that driving was only a few hours on a day then manual records on printout paper or an anlouge tacho would be acceptable. If no driving for the set week a block manual record can be used.

[Iainto]

Manual entries

..

[john.reffe]

No, unfortunately, you can’t use your time sheet. Have a read at the Recording Other Work part of this.
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/drivers-hou ... raph-rules

[krislou]

you can record your non driving hours on a letter of attestation

[nephewhe]

you can record your non driving hours on a letter of attestation

attestation letters at one point wasn't recognised by Dvsa. When did it become recognised?

[krislou]

you can record your non driving hours on a letter of attestation

attestation letters at one point wasn't recognised by Dvsa. When did it become recognised?

they have always been recognised. came in with EC561/2006 EU drivers hours regs. we just never utilised them in the UK but have always been accepted

[nephewhe]

you can record your non driving hours on a letter of attestation

attestation letters at one point wasn't recognised by Dvsa. When did it become recognised?

they have always been recognised. came in with EC561/2006 EU drivers hours regs. we just never utilised them in the UK but have always been accepted

interesting, last time I did a cpc refresher the chap said it's only recognised on the back of a print out, or tacho disc. I drive vintage buses for weddings etc on an irregular basis I tend do do a block of weeks on the back putting down what I've done. It's a pointless exercise because no one is ever going to or have stopped a old vehicle, mainly because dvsa bless them wouldn't have a clue when it comes to how old vehicles work

[krislou]

attestation letters at one point wasn't recognised by Dvsa. When did it become recognised?

they have always been recognised. came in with EC561/2006 EU drivers hours regs. we just never utilised them in the UK but have always been accepted

interesting, last time I did a cpc refresher the chap said it's only recognised on the back of a print out, or tacho disc. I drive vintage buses for weddings etc on an irregular basis I tend do do a block of weeks on the back putting down what I've done. It's a pointless exercise because no one is ever going to or have stopped a old vehicle, mainly because dvsa bless them wouldn't have a clue when it comes to how old vehicles work

you have 100% been misinformed

[nephewhe]

they have always been recognised. came in with EC561/2006 EU drivers hours regs. we just never utilised them in the UK but have always been accepted

interesting, last time I did a cpc refresher the chap said it's only recognised on the back of a print out, or tacho disc. I drive vintage buses for weddings etc on an irregular basis I tend do do a block of weeks on the back putting down what I've done. It's a pointless exercise because no one is ever going to or have stopped a old vehicle, mainly because dvsa bless them wouldn't have a clue when it comes to how old vehicles work

you have 100% been misinformed

that's what I was thinking!
Tbh the guy was pretty crap when I did the cpc refresher. All he talked about was Digital tachos I said, ah ha! Well all my vehicles (bar one) I drive are all analogue. I was starting to sniff BS when he was replying with various facts and figures

[krislou]

https://transport.ec.europa.eu/transpor ... ivities_en

[Iainto]

No need to do the manual entries if driving is not your primary role. You should keep a manual record of all other work including breaks. It is recognised that it would be too much to input several weeks of other duties as a manual entry each time you drive on an odd occasion. If you were driving a few times every week then manual entries would be required to cover the other day or two. I record mine by inputting daily duty time on our tacho analysis software on a daily basis which is recognised as an acceptable record.

[ThrillTribee]

No need to do the manual entries if driving is not your primary role. You should keep a manual record of all other work including breaks. It is recognised that it would be too much to input several weeks of other duties as a manual entry each time you drive on an odd occasion. If you were driving a few times every week then manual entries would be required to cover the other day or two. I record mine by inputting daily duty time on our tacho analysis software on a daily basis which is recognised as an acceptable record.

not sure where you are getting some of the information you are quoting? I’m always happy to learn, but my understanding is you can only record your activities when you have driven within the working week under EC561/2006 on a tachograph record. Be it an analogue chart/disc, printout or actually inputting the data via a manual entry. The only other way I believe is acceptable is a letter of attestation. Interested to know where you got your info from?

[Iainto]

No need to do the manual entries if driving is not your primary role. You should keep a manual record of all other work including breaks. It is recognised that it would be too much to input several weeks of other duties as a manual entry each time you drive on an odd occasion. If you were driving a few times every week then manual entries would be required to cover the other day or two. I record mine by inputting daily duty time on our tacho analysis software on a daily basis which is recognised as an acceptable record.

not sure where you are getting some of the information you are quoting? I’m always happy to learn, but my understanding is you can only record your activities when you have driven within the working week under EC561/2006 on a tachograph record. Be it an analogue chart/disc, printout or actually inputting the data via a manual entry. The only other way I believe is acceptable is a letter of attestation. Interested to know where you got your info from?

How is my information incorrect, you have said the same as I have. Is writing on an analogue tacho chart not classed as a manual record?? I believe it is. But you will find the rules do differ when driving is not your primary duty, for example a TM. Records can be kept as a block for the week where no driving has taken place and an individual record if driving has taken place. All manual records rather than inputting on a digital tacho head.
To summarise.. My post is refering to it is recognised you do not need to do this manual input on a digital tacho head, a manual record is acceptable. I put entries for the weeks i dont undertake and in scope driving work into our tacho analysis software and print this out. If I do drive I input manual entries into the tacho head for that working week. I have been told this is an acceptable record, especially as it has a signature box at the bottom that I sign and date. I believe this to be correct, but as we all know some Interpretations can differ.

[Iainto]

No need to do the manual entries if driving is not your primary role. You should keep a manual record of all other work including breaks. It is recognised that it would be too much to input several weeks of other duties as a manual entry each time you drive on an odd occasion. If you were driving a few times every week then manual entries would be required to cover the other day or two. I record mine by inputting daily duty time on our tacho analysis software on a daily basis which is recognised as an acceptable record.

not sure where you are getting some of the information you are quoting? I’m always happy to learn, but my understanding is you can only record your activities when you have driven within the working week under EC561/2006 on a tachograph record. Be it an analogue chart/disc, printout or actually inputting the data via a manual entry. The only other way I believe is acceptable is a letter of attestation. Interested to know where you got your info from?

..

[ThrillTribee]

No need to do the manual entries if driving is not your primary role. You should keep a manual record of all other work including breaks. It is recognised that it would be too much to input several weeks of other duties as a manual entry each time you drive on an odd occasion. If you were driving a few times every week then manual entries would be required to cover the other day or two. I record mine by inputting daily duty time on our tacho analysis software on a daily basis which is recognised as an acceptable record.

not sure where you are getting some of the information you are quoting? I’m always happy to learn, but my understanding is you can only record your activities when you have driven within the working week under EC561/2006 on a tachograph record. Be it an analogue chart/disc, printout or actually inputting the data via a manual entry. The only other way I believe is acceptable is a letter of attestation. Interested to know where you got your info from?

How is my information incorrect, you have said the same as I have. Is writing on an analogue tacho chart not classed as a manual record?? I believe it is. But you will find the rules do differ when driving is not your primary duty, for example a TM. Records can be kept as a block for the week where no driving has taken place and an individual record if driving has taken place. All manual records rather than inputting on a digital tacho head.
To summarise.. My post is refering to it is recognised you do not need to do this manual input on a digital tacho head, a manual record is acceptable. I put entries for the weeks i dont undertake and in scope driving work into our tacho analysis software and print this out. If I do drive I input manual entries into the tacho head for that working week. I have been told this is an acceptable record, especially as it has a signature box at the bottom that I sign and date. I believe this to be correct, but as we all know some Interpretations can differ.

You stated manual entries aren’t required if driving isn’t your primary role. This isn’t correct. You have to do manual entries in any week when you’re driving whether driving is your job or not. You also stated that you record your duty time on an analysis program and this is permitted - this isn’t permitted. Everything is on a tachograph record or a letter of attestation. That is why I asked if you could show any evidence to support these claims & what you attached actually shows the correct ruling and nothing about inputs on analysis software.

[Iainto]

not sure where you are getting some of the information you are quoting? I’m always happy to learn, but my understanding is you can only record your activities when you have driven within the working week under EC561/2006 on a tachograph record. Be it an analogue chart/disc, printout or actually inputting the data via a manual entry. The only other way I believe is acceptable is a letter of attestation. Interested to know where you got your info from?

How is my information incorrect, you have said the same as I have. Is writing on an analogue tacho chart not classed as a manual record?? I believe it is. But you will find the rules do differ when driving is not your primary duty, for example a TM. Records can be kept as a block for the week where no driving has taken place and an individual record if driving has taken place. All manual records rather than inputting on a digital tacho head.
To summarise.. My post is refering to it is recognised you do not need to do this manual input on a digital tacho head, a manual record is acceptable. I put entries for the weeks i dont undertake and in scope driving work into our tacho analysis software and print this out. If I do drive I input manual entries into the tacho head for that working week. I have been told this is an acceptable record, especially as it has a signature box at the bottom that I sign and date. I believe this to be correct, but as we all know some Interpretations can differ.

You stated manual entries aren’t required if driving isn’t your primary role. This isn’t correct. You have to do manual entries in any week when you’re driving whether driving is your job or not. You also stated that you record your duty time on an analysis program and this is permitted - this isn’t permitted. Everything is on a tachograph record or a letter of attestation. That is why I asked if you could show any evidence to support these claims & what you attached actually shows the correct ruling and nothing about inputs on analysis software.

manual entreis are not a requirement if you do not drive in a set week. I believe the post was asking about whether you have to input manual entries for every day not driven, in his case manual entries for approx 2 weeks. A block record is acceptable for weeks not worked and a manual record (tacho paper/chart) is acceptable if you have only driven for a short period. Ideally inlut manual entries if this is what you want to do but i believe not a requirement. When I input on our analysis software and print it out it shows the block week record as required. This also records it for WTD so covers both aspects. Maybe not everyone's software is capable of this but ours is. I am refering this back to our compliance audit company for clarification but from our last audit he confirmed this was an acceptable format for us. The best corse of action for anyone that needs their own personal clarification it is best to approach a compliance audit company. That way they know for sure.

[Iainto]

not sure where you are getting some of the information you are quoting? I’m always happy to learn, but my understanding is you can only record your activities when you have driven within the working week under EC561/2006 on a tachograph record. Be it an analogue chart/disc, printout or actually inputting the data via a manual entry. The only other way I believe is acceptable is a letter of attestation. Interested to know where you got your info from?

How is my information incorrect, you have said the same as I have. Is writing on an analogue tacho chart not classed as a manual record?? I believe it is. But you will find the rules do differ when driving is not your primary duty, for example a TM. Records can be kept as a block for the week where no driving has taken place and an individual record if driving has taken place. All manual records rather than inputting on a digital tacho head.
To summarise.. My post is refering to it is recognised you do not need to do this manual input on a digital tacho head, a manual record is acceptable. I put entries for the weeks i dont undertake and in scope driving work into our tacho analysis software and print this out. If I do drive I input manual entries into the tacho head for that working week. I have been told this is an acceptable record, especially as it has a signature box at the bottom that I sign and date. I believe this to be correct, but as we all know some Interpretations can differ.

You stated manual entries aren’t required if driving isn’t your primary role. This isn’t correct. You have to do manual entries in any week when you’re driving whether driving is your job or not. You also stated that you record your duty time on an analysis program and this is permitted - this isn’t permitted. Everything is on a tachograph record or a letter of attestation. That is why I asked if you could show any evidence to support these claims & what you attached actually shows the correct ruling and nothing about inputs on analysis software.

also see attached. This is the current legislation on DVSA website saying it is not required and a block entry is fine for weeks not driven. This format demonstrated is how my printout looks from the analysis software. I think there are lots of crossed wires regarding a requirement for a manual entry on a digi tacho head and a manual record which can be on tacho paper/chart or a block record in some circumstances. Lots of grey areas in this industry and lots of different interpretations

[ThrillTribee]

How is my information incorrect, you have said the same as I have. Is writing on an analogue tacho chart not classed as a manual record?? I believe it is. But you will find the rules do differ when driving is not your primary duty, for example a TM. Records can be kept as a block for the week where no driving has taken place and an individual record if driving has taken place. All manual records rather than inputting on a digital tacho head.
To summarise.. My post is refering to it is recognised you do not need to do this manual input on a digital tacho head, a manual record is acceptable. I put entries for the weeks i dont undertake and in scope driving work into our tacho analysis software and print this out. If I do drive I input manual entries into the tacho head for that working week. I have been told this is an acceptable record, especially as it has a signature box at the bottom that I sign and date. I believe this to be correct, but as we all know some Interpretations can differ.

You stated manual entries aren’t required if driving isn’t your primary role. This isn’t correct. You have to do manual entries in any week when you’re driving whether driving is your job or not. You also stated that you record your duty time on an analysis program and this is permitted - this isn’t permitted. Everything is on a tachograph record or a letter of attestation. That is why I asked if you could show any evidence to support these claims & what you attached actually shows the correct ruling and nothing about inputs on analysis software.

also see attached. This is the current legislation on DVSA website saying it is not required and a block entry is fine for weeks not driven. This format demonstrated is how my printout looks from the analysis software. I think there are lots of crossed wires regarding a requirement for a manual entry on a digi tacho head and a manual record which can be on tacho paper/chart or a block record in some circumstances. Lots of grey areas in this industry and lots of different interpretations

I’m not mentioning anything about block entries, less they can be done on either a tachograph or a letter of attestation. The record has to be a tachograph record or a letter of attestation no other method is acceptable under legislation. When DVSA state a record sheet this is a tachograph record and if the manual record is written on a tachograph printout again this is fine. If you are transferring the information from the analysis program to a tachograph printout then that is okay. There’s no grey areas.

[mcIdol]

No need to do the manual entries if driving is not your primary role. You should keep a manual record of all other work including breaks. It is recognised that it would be too much to input several weeks of other duties as a manual entry each time you drive on an odd occasion. If you were driving a few times every week then manual entries would be required to cover the other day or two. I record mine by inputting daily duty time on our tacho analysis software on a daily basis which is recognised as an acceptable record.

Incorrect, the only acceptable methods are a manual entry on a digital tachograph, writing on back of printout / analogue disc or letter of attestation.

[Iainto]

No need to do the manual entries if driving is not your primary role. You should keep a manual record of all other work including breaks. It is recognised that it would be too much to input several weeks of other duties as a manual entry each time you drive on an odd occasion. If you were driving a few times every week then manual entries would be required to cover the other day or two. I record mine by inputting daily duty time on our tacho analysis software on a daily basis which is recognised as an acceptable record.

Incorrect, the only acceptable methods are a manual entry on a digital tachograph, writing on back of printout / analogue disc or letter of attestation.

How is my information incorrect, you have said the same as I have. Is writing on an analogue tacho chart not classed as a manual record?? I believe it is. But you will find the rules do differ when driving is not your primary duty, for example a TM. Records can be kept as a block for the week where no driving has taken place and an individual record if driving has taken place. All manual records rather than inputting on a digital tacho head.
To summarise.. My post is refering to it is recognised you do not need to do this manual input on a digital tacho head, a manual record is acceptable. I put entries for the weeks i dont undertake and in scope driving work into our tacho analysis software and print this out. If I do drive I input manual entries into the tacho head for that working week. I have been told this is an acceptable record, especially as it has a signature box at the bottom that I sign and date. I believe this to be correct, but as we all know some Interpretations can differ.

[Iainto]

No need to do the manual entries if driving is not your primary role. You should keep a manual record of all other work including breaks. It is recognised that it would be too much to input several weeks of other duties as a manual entry each time you drive on an odd occasion. If you were driving a few times every week then manual entries would be required to cover the other day or two. I record mine by inputting daily duty time on our tacho analysis software on a daily basis which is recognised as an acceptable record.

Incorrect, the only acceptable methods are a manual entry on a digital tachograph, writing on back of printout / analogue disc or letter of attestation.

..

[talescop]

No need to do the manual entries if driving is not your primary role. You should keep a manual record of all other work including breaks. It is recognised that it would be too much to input several weeks of other duties as a manual entry each time you drive on an odd occasion. If you were driving a few times every week then manual entries would be required to cover the other day or two. I record mine by inputting daily duty time on our tacho analysis software on a daily basis which is recognised as an acceptable record.

Incorrect, the only acceptable methods are a manual entry on a digital tachograph, writing on back of printout / analogue disc or letter of attestation.

the only acceptable method?
Why can’t he manually input his non driving days using the tachograph software on this pc or laptop?

[mcIdol]

No need to do the manual entries if driving is not your primary role. You should keep a manual record of all other work including breaks. It is recognised that it would be too much to input several weeks of other duties as a manual entry each time you drive on an odd occasion. If you were driving a few times every week then manual entries would be required to cover the other day or two. I record mine by inputting daily duty time on our tacho analysis software on a daily basis which is recognised as an acceptable record.

Incorrect, the only acceptable methods are a manual entry on a digital tachograph, writing on back of printout / analogue disc or letter of attestation.

the only acceptable method?
Why can’t he manually input his non driving days using the tachograph software on this pc or laptop?

Yes they are the only acceptable methods. You can’t write information to a drivers card using tachograph software, only a VU can do that.

[Iainto]

No need to do the manual entries if driving is not your primary role. You should keep a manual record of all other work including breaks. It is recognised that it would be too much to input several weeks of other duties as a manual entry each time you drive on an odd occasion. If you were driving a few times every week then manual entries would be required to cover the other day or two. I record mine by inputting daily duty time on our tacho analysis software on a daily basis which is recognised as an acceptable record.

Incorrect, the only acceptable methods are a manual entry on a digital tachograph, writing on back of printout / analogue disc or letter of attestation.

I will check again with our compliance company as they have implied this is OK on our last audit. The reports that i print out are the same format as a tacho printout so I am sure this is OK , this includes details of my licence and driver card. That said I will still double check this is still the case. We have a bespoke system for the whole operation including remote downloads and daily deliveries etc, incorporated into our accounting system. As I said maybe other companies have different software and is always worth checking with a compliance company. We have a voluntary annual audit and I do regular refresher courses to ensure we stay compliant. And just to confirm i regarded lots of grey areas in the industry, not necessarily referring to this particular debate. Lots of different interpretation to some rules and regs, even from training companies that read some regs slightly different to other companies.

[jinChat]

No need to do the manual entries if driving is not your primary role. You should keep a manual record of all other work including breaks. It is recognised that it would be too much to input several weeks of other duties as a manual entry each time you drive on an odd occasion. If you were driving a few times every week then manual entries would be required to cover the other day or two. I record mine by inputting daily duty time on our tacho analysis software on a daily basis which is recognised as an acceptable record.

Incorrect, the only acceptable methods are a manual entry on a digital tachograph, writing on back of printout / analogue disc or letter of attestation.

I will check again with our compliance company as they have implied this is OK on our last audit. The reports that i print out are the same format as a tacho printout so I am sure this is OK , this includes details of my licence and driver card. That said I will still double check this is still the case. We have a bespoke system for the whole operation including remote downloads and daily deliveries etc, incorporated into our accounting system. As I said maybe other companies have different software and is always worth checking with a compliance company. We have a voluntary annual audit and I do regular refresher courses to ensure we stay compliant. And just to confirm i regarded lots of grey areas in the industry, not necessarily referring to this particular debate. Lots of different interpretation to some rules and regs, even from training companies that read some regs slightly different to other companies.

analysis systems and analysis printouts are not an official record. They may be accepted at the roadside but still not correct. Official record keeping options are clearly stated in guidance.

[ThrillTribee]

Incorrect, the only acceptable methods are a manual entry on a digital tachograph, writing on back of printout / analogue disc or letter of attestation.

I will check again with our compliance company as they have implied this is OK on our last audit. The reports that i print out are the same format as a tacho printout so I am sure this is OK , this includes details of my licence and driver card. That said I will still double check this is still the case. We have a bespoke system for the whole operation including remote downloads and daily deliveries etc, incorporated into our accounting system. As I said maybe other companies have different software and is always worth checking with a compliance company. We have a voluntary annual audit and I do regular refresher courses to ensure we stay compliant. And just to confirm i regarded lots of grey areas in the industry, not necessarily referring to this particular debate. Lots of different interpretation to some rules and regs, even from training companies that read some regs slightly different to other companies.

analysis systems and analysis printouts are not an official record. They may be accepted at the roadside but still not correct. Official record keeping options are clearly stated in guidance.

Jinchat you are correct and Iainto isn’t.
Article 6 EU 561/2006 states:
A driver shall record as other work any time spent as described in point (e) of Article 4 as well as any time spent driving a vehicle used for commercial operations that do not fall within the scope of this Regulation, and shall record any periods of availability, as defined in point (b) of Article 3 of Directive 2002/15/EC, in accordance with point (b)(iii) of Article 34(5) of Regulation (EU) No 165/2014 of the European Parliament and of the Council (1). This record shall be entered either manually on a record sheet or printout or by use of manual input facilities on recording equipment.
Iain is choosing to interpret a piece of information from DVSA, that he keeps posting, incorrectly. It clearly says that you have to use tachographs to record your manual entries but somehow he seems to see SOFTWARE ANALYSIS in there!
These are the acceptable methods to record manual entries:
Record sheet = tachograph.
Printout = tachograph
Input facility = tachograph
Not rocket science.

[ThrillTribee]

Incorrect, the only acceptable methods are a manual entry on a digital tachograph, writing on back of printout / analogue disc or letter of attestation.

I will check again with our compliance company as they have implied this is OK on our last audit. The reports that i print out are the same format as a tacho printout so I am sure this is OK , this includes details of my licence and driver card. That said I will still double check this is still the case. We have a bespoke system for the whole operation including remote downloads and daily deliveries etc, incorporated into our accounting system. As I said maybe other companies have different software and is always worth checking with a compliance company. We have a voluntary annual audit and I do regular refresher courses to ensure we stay compliant. And just to confirm i regarded lots of grey areas in the industry, not necessarily referring to this particular debate. Lots of different interpretation to some rules and regs, even from training companies that read some regs slightly different to other companies.

analysis systems and analysis printouts are not an official record. They may be accepted at the roadside but still not correct. Official record keeping options are clearly stated in guidance.

and DVSA would accept Iainto software analysis as evidence that he isn’t recording his work on a tachograph and issue him a fixed penalty.

[Iainto]

I will check again with our compliance company as they have implied this is OK on our last audit. The reports that i print out are the same format as a tacho printout so I am sure this is OK , this includes details of my licence and driver card. That said I will still double check this is still the case. We have a bespoke system for the whole operation including remote downloads and daily deliveries etc, incorporated into our accounting system. As I said maybe other companies have different software and is always worth checking with a compliance company. We have a voluntary annual audit and I do regular refresher courses to ensure we stay compliant. And just to confirm i regarded lots of grey areas in the industry, not necessarily referring to this particular debate. Lots of different interpretation to some rules and regs, even from training companies that read some regs slightly different to other companies.

analysis systems and analysis printouts are not an official record. They may be accepted at the roadside but still not correct. Official record keeping options are clearly stated in guidance.

Jinchat you are correct and Iainto isn’t.
Article 6 EU 561/2006 states:
A driver shall record as other work any time spent as described in point (e) of Article 4 as well as any time spent driving a vehicle used for commercial operations that do not fall within the scope of this Regulation, and shall record any periods of availability, as defined in point (b) of Article 3 of Directive 2002/15/EC, in accordance with point (b)(iii) of Article 34(5) of Regulation (EU) No 165/2014 of the European Parliament and of the Council (1). This record shall be entered either manually on a record sheet or printout or by use of manual input facilities on recording equipment.
Iain is choosing to interpret a piece of information from DVSA, that he keeps posting, incorrectly. It clearly says that you have to use tachographs to record your manual entries but somehow he seems to see SOFTWARE ANALYSIS in there!
These are the acceptable methods to record manual entries:
Record sheet = tachograph.
Printout = tachograph
Input facility = tachograph
Not rocket science.

I would ask people to ignore my comment regarding using the analysis software, I didn't realise the software that we have that prints out the same as a tacho head is not a standard add on to all analysis systems. This a bespoke piece of software that we have had since 2008 that allows me to print out a tacho roll exactly how it comes out of the tacho in a truck, so in essence the same as doing a manual entry. I did put in one of my comments that this prints out the same but can't remember who to.
The answer I was trying to give which was the post we are on, was it is not required to manually input into a digi tacho head if only an odd day is driven and that block week manual records are acceptable for weeks not in scope. Manual records are acceptable to which I also put (tacho paper / chart). I was then sharing what I do but somehow we all got into a debate about a piece of software that is ot a standard add on.
We have another compliance audit in 8 weeks so will be raising this then for clarity, I will also seek advice from our local DVSA site to ensure this is still acceptable.

[ThrillTribee]

analysis systems and analysis printouts are not an official record. They may be accepted at the roadside but still not correct. Official record keeping options are clearly stated in guidance.

Jinchat you are correct and Iainto isn’t.
Article 6 EU 561/2006 states:
A driver shall record as other work any time spent as described in point (e) of Article 4 as well as any time spent driving a vehicle used for commercial operations that do not fall within the scope of this Regulation, and shall record any periods of availability, as defined in point (b) of Article 3 of Directive 2002/15/EC, in accordance with point (b)(iii) of Article 34(5) of Regulation (EU) No 165/2014 of the European Parliament and of the Council (1). This record shall be entered either manually on a record sheet or printout or by use of manual input facilities on recording equipment.
Iain is choosing to interpret a piece of information from DVSA, that he keeps posting, incorrectly. It clearly says that you have to use tachographs to record your manual entries but somehow he seems to see SOFTWARE ANALYSIS in there!
These are the acceptable methods to record manual entries:
Record sheet = tachograph.
Printout = tachograph
Input facility = tachograph
Not rocket science.

I would ask people to ignore my comment regarding using the analysis software, I didn't realise the software that we have that prints out the same as a tacho head is not a standard add on to all analysis systems. This a bespoke piece of software that we have had since 2008 that allows me to print out a tacho roll exactly how it comes out of the tacho in a truck, so in essence the same as doing a manual entry. I did put in one of my comments that this prints out the same but can't remember who to.
The answer I was trying to give which was the post we are on, was it is not required to manually input into a digi tacho head if only an odd day is driven and that block week manual records are acceptable for weeks not in scope. Manual records are acceptable to which I also put (tacho paper / chart). I was then sharing what I do but somehow we all got into a debate about a piece of software that is ot a standard add on.
We have another compliance audit in 8 weeks so will be raising this then for clarity, I will also seek advice from our local DVSA site to ensure this is still acceptable.

appreciate you were trying to help. I would add (not being argumentative) that any actual printout has all of the vehicle and driver information on it plus mileage, time etc so does the software printout provide this?

[Iainto]

Jinchat you are correct and Iainto isn’t.
Article 6 EU 561/2006 states:
A driver shall record as other work any time spent as described in point (e) of Article 4 as well as any time spent driving a vehicle used for commercial operations that do not fall within the scope of this Regulation, and shall record any periods of availability, as defined in point (b) of Article 3 of Directive 2002/15/EC, in accordance with point (b)(iii) of Article 34(5) of Regulation (EU) No 165/2014 of the European Parliament and of the Council (1). This record shall be entered either manually on a record sheet or printout or by use of manual input facilities on recording equipment.
Iain is choosing to interpret a piece of information from DVSA, that he keeps posting, incorrectly. It clearly says that you have to use tachographs to record your manual entries but somehow he seems to see SOFTWARE ANALYSIS in there!
These are the acceptable methods to record manual entries:
Record sheet = tachograph.
Printout = tachograph
Input facility = tachograph
Not rocket science.

I would ask people to ignore my comment regarding using the analysis software, I didn't realise the software that we have that prints out the same as a tacho head is not a standard add on to all analysis systems. This a bespoke piece of software that we have had since 2008 that allows me to print out a tacho roll exactly how it comes out of the tacho in a truck, so in essence the same as doing a manual entry. I did put in one of my comments that this prints out the same but can't remember who to.
The answer I was trying to give which was the post we are on, was it is not required to manually input into a digi tacho head if only an odd day is driven and that block week manual records are acceptable for weeks not in scope. Manual records are acceptable to which I also put (tacho paper / chart). I was then sharing what I do but somehow we all got into a debate about a piece of software that is ot a standard add on.
We have another compliance audit in 8 weeks so will be raising this then for clarity, I will also seek advice from our local DVSA site to ensure this is still acceptable.

appreciate you were trying to help. I would add (not being argumentative) that any actual printout has all of the vehicle and driver information on it plus mileage, time etc so does the software printout provide this?

the comment I made that it prints out the same as a tacho printout. As I said disregard my comments about the software unless anyone has the same capability on theirs.

[Iainto]

Jinchat you are correct and Iainto isn’t.
Article 6 EU 561/2006 states:
A driver shall record as other work any time spent as described in point (e) of Article 4 as well as any time spent driving a vehicle used for commercial operations that do not fall within the scope of this Regulation, and shall record any periods of availability, as defined in point (b) of Article 3 of Directive 2002/15/EC, in accordance with point (b)(iii) of Article 34(5) of Regulation (EU) No 165/2014 of the European Parliament and of the Council (1). This record shall be entered either manually on a record sheet or printout or by use of manual input facilities on recording equipment.
Iain is choosing to interpret a piece of information from DVSA, that he keeps posting, incorrectly. It clearly says that you have to use tachographs to record your manual entries but somehow he seems to see SOFTWARE ANALYSIS in there!
These are the acceptable methods to record manual entries:
Record sheet = tachograph.
Printout = tachograph
Input facility = tachograph
Not rocket science.

I would ask people to ignore my comment regarding using the analysis software, I didn't realise the software that we have that prints out the same as a tacho head is not a standard add on to all analysis systems. This a bespoke piece of software that we have had since 2008 that allows me to print out a tacho roll exactly how it comes out of the tacho in a truck, so in essence the same as doing a manual entry. I did put in one of my comments that this prints out the same but can't remember who to.
The answer I was trying to give which was the post we are on, was it is not required to manually input into a digi tacho head if only an odd day is driven and that block week manual records are acceptable for weeks not in scope. Manual records are acceptable to which I also put (tacho paper / chart). I was then sharing what I do but somehow we all got into a debate about a piece of software that is ot a standard add on.
We have another compliance audit in 8 weeks so will be raising this then for clarity, I will also seek advice from our local DVSA site to ensure this is still acceptable.

appreciate you were trying to help. I would add (not being argumentative) that any actual printout has all of the vehicle and driver information on it plus mileage, time etc so does the software printout provide this?

it doesn't have vehicle details as I am on office duties. The printout shows the time started, finished and what time I take my break. It also has my licence and driver card details on it. I can add in drive time if I did use a vehicle without a tacho card for any reason and this allows me to add the reg. I have never actually used this part though as I very rarely drive anymore but if I do I use my digi card, if I do this I usually do manual entries, if not possible at the time I do a manual record each day for that week. I am going to take one of these to our local DVSA site when I get a chance to ask their opinion to ensure I am compliant, but as I probably only drive an odd day a year hopefully this won't ever become an issue for me. Will report back if I find it is not compliant for any reason

[DavDavidance]

No need to do the manual entries if driving is not your primary role. You should keep a manual record of all other work including breaks. It is recognised that it would be too much to input several weeks of other duties as a manual entry each time you drive on an odd occasion. If you were driving a few times every week then manual entries would be required to cover the other day or two. I record mine by inputting daily duty time on our tacho analysis software on a daily basis which is recognised as an acceptable record.

when you get stopped at the side of the road can you show what you have worked for the last 28 days. You must be able to show weekly and daily rest.

[benines]

As a TM I’d do manual entries - it helps you to coach drivers to do it, and you can nip in the yard and make a manual entry any time you’ve got five minutes and there’s a truck sat spare.

[jejunibus]

As TM I drive very occasionally and keep my records on the back of a tacho roll. Inputting on tacho software on PC is not an acceptable method of record keeping, wish it was be easy for me remember you have to provide your 28 day records on the side of the road, if asked, in an acceptable format.

[Iainto]

As TM I drive very occasionally and keep my records on the back of a tacho roll. Inputting on tacho software on PC is not an acceptable method of record keeping, wish it was be easy for me remember you have to provide your 28 day records on the side of the road, if asked, in an acceptable format.

you can print out your hours from tacho analysis software. I do this once I input any weeks I don't work in scope. Only time you should do on tacho paper or manual inputs is if you drive within that week. I have been told this is an acceptable record for recording block weeks and individual days are not required.

[jejunibus]

As TM I drive very occasionally and keep my records on the back of a tacho roll. Inputting on tacho software on PC is not an acceptable method of record keeping, wish it was be easy for me remember you have to provide your 28 day records on the side of the road, if asked, in an acceptable format.

you can print out your hours from tacho analysis software. I do this once I input any weeks I don't work in scope. Only time you should do on tacho paper or manual inputs is if you drive within that week. I have been told this is an acceptable record for recording block weeks and individual days are not required.

yes that is correct but must be in the acceptable format and tacho software is not one of the acceptable formats.

[Iainto]

As TM I drive very occasionally and keep my records on the back of a tacho roll. Inputting on tacho software on PC is not an acceptable method of record keeping, wish it was be easy for me remember you have to provide your 28 day records on the side of the road, if asked, in an acceptable format.

you can print out your hours from tacho analysis software. I do this once I input any weeks I don't work in scope. Only time you should do on tacho paper or manual inputs is if you drive within that week. I have been told this is an acceptable record for recording block weeks and individual days are not required.

yes that is correct but must be in the acceptable format and tacho software is not one of the acceptable formats.

I will check with our compliance company again. They viewed our software on our last audit and confirmed that as long as I print the record and carry with me if I drive in scope within the 28 day period that it is acceptable. It shows all relevant information including break times. I will ask them to clarify that this is still the case.

[ThrillTribee]

As TM I drive very occasionally and keep my records on the back of a tacho roll. Inputting on tacho software on PC is not an acceptable method of record keeping, wish it was be easy for me remember you have to provide your 28 day records on the side of the road, if asked, in an acceptable format.

you are correct. Iainto clearly either hasn’t read the legislation or chooses to ignore what he is being advised on regarding the need to use tachographs to record his activities on and not some software.

[jejunibus]

As TM I drive very occasionally and keep my records on the back of a tacho roll. Inputting on tacho software on PC is not an acceptable method of record keeping, wish it was be easy for me remember you have to provide your 28 day records on the side of the road, if asked, in an acceptable format.

you are correct. Iainto clearly either hasn’t read the legislation or chooses to ignore what he is being advised on regarding the need to use tachographs to record his activities on and not some software.

I was on a forum with 2 DVSA guys and they were very clear what formats they would accept at the side of the road. If your compliance says different then let me know please as would be easier for me then I will email the DVSA guys

[Iainto]

As TM I drive very occasionally and keep my records on the back of a tacho roll. Inputting on tacho software on PC is not an acceptable method of record keeping, wish it was be easy for me remember you have to provide your 28 day records on the side of the road, if asked, in an acceptable format.

you can print out your hours from tacho analysis software. I do this once I input any weeks I don't work in scope. Only time you should do on tacho paper or manual inputs is if you drive within that week. I have been told this is an acceptable record for recording block weeks and individual days are not required.

yes that is correct but must be in the acceptable format and tacho software is not one of the acceptable formats.

as in a previous comment to someone else it appears our software differs from the majority of others. When I print it out it comes out the same as it would from a digi tacho head using the same paper. I think my explanation wasn't the best but I am going to get some clarity by taking one into our local DVSA site when i get a chance to ask them if it is OK or if I should manually write them. To be honest I very rarely drive in scope so for me it doesn't make a lot of difference but will check we are being compliant if I do. I will update if i find this is not accceptable for any reason. I would ask everyone to disregard that part of my comments if your software package does not allow you to do this & without getting confirmation it is acceptable.

[Iainto]

As TM I drive very occasionally and keep my records on the back of a tacho roll. Inputting on tacho software on PC is not an acceptable method of record keeping, wish it was be easy for me remember you have to provide your 28 day records on the side of the road, if asked, in an acceptable format.

you can print out your hours from tacho analysis software. I do this once I input any weeks I don't work in scope. Only time you should do on tacho paper or manual inputs is if you drive within that week. I have been told this is an acceptable record for recording block weeks and individual days are not required.

yes that is correct but must be in the acceptable format and tacho software is not one of the acceptable formats.

the comment I made the other day reference the printouts I get being the same format as a digi tacho printout.

[Iainto]

As TM I drive very occasionally and keep my records on the back of a tacho roll. Inputting on tacho software on PC is not an acceptable method of record keeping, wish it was be easy for me remember you have to provide your 28 day records on the side of the road, if asked, in an acceptable format.

you can print out your hours from tacho analysis software. I do this once I input any weeks I don't work in scope. Only time you should do on tacho paper or manual inputs is if you drive within that week. I have been told this is an acceptable record for recording block weeks and individual days are not required.

yes that is correct but must be in the acceptable format and tacho software is not one of the acceptable formats.

..

[jinChat]

you can print out your hours from tacho analysis software. I do this once I input any weeks I don't work in scope. Only time you should do on tacho paper or manual inputs is if you drive within that week. I have been told this is an acceptable record for recording block weeks and individual days are not required.

yes that is correct but must be in the acceptable format and tacho software is not one of the acceptable formats.

..

nowhere does it state analysis records are acceptable.
In other paragraphs it's states which form of 'other records' are acceptable

[rich4degro]

As TM I drive very occasionally and keep my records on the back of a tacho roll. Inputting on tacho software on PC is not an acceptable method of record keeping, wish it was be easy for me remember you have to provide your 28 day records on the side of the road, if asked, in an acceptable format.

and 28 days will soon be 54days.

[BillStill]

Not being rude but you are a TM. Read what the rules say and your answer will be clear as day.

[DavDavidance]

Best thing to do is at the end of your day (office duties or whatever) put you digi card in any truck and make a manual record of other work. This and only record sheets (digital print out paper and analologue discs) can be used.