It’s rare in road haulage for someone to be genuinely self-employed unless they’re an owner-driver The way that some

[Traceyou]

Driver employment status: making sure you get it right
It’s rare in road haulage for someone to be genuinely self-employed unless they’re an owner-driver
The way that some drivers are employed in the haulage industry continues to cause problems for operators.
Take this example. A business recently advertised for a new driver and received 31 applications.
29 of these were from limited companies, which had been set up by drivers.
HMRC believe that some employers are wrongly treating workers as self-employed or hiring them through their own companies.
These practices don’t comply with tax laws and lead to unfair competition between operators.
HMRC has issued detailed guidance on employment status.
In general, someone is self-employed if they’re:
• in business on their own account
• bear the responsibility for the success or failure of that business
They’re employed if they:
• personally work under the control of their engager
• do not run the risks of having the business themselves
If you’re involved in recruiting employees you can get more information from:
HMRC’s guidance on employment status
Senior Traffic Commissioner’s document on legal entities

[Traceyou]

This is from OTC

[FURELLO]

So where do you draw the line with a driver coming to you as a Ltd and a driver coming to you through an agency who also has a a Ltd?

[peach27]

So where do you draw the line with a driver coming to you as a Ltd and a driver coming to you through an agency who also has a a Ltd?

Easy - if it’s a one day, short term, temporary position it’s ok.
If it’s long term and all you are doing is avoiding the commitment and hassle of employing someone - it’s not ok

[Traceyou]

So where do you draw the line with a driver coming to you as a Ltd and a driver coming to you through an agency who also has a a Ltd?

Easy - if it’s a one day, short term, temporary position it’s ok.
If it’s long term and all you are doing is avoiding the commitment and hassle of employing someone - it’s not ok

I suppose the idea of the 12 weeks limit that applies agency workers parity would be a good starting point

[Traceyou]

I don't know but it seems we are going to be the ones to suffer

[Traceyou]

I think this is an extract from the updated statutory docs but it was an email from OTC today

[donkindu]

Long overdue this and I applaud it. Just need to get the tax office out and about to catch employees and employers. Maybe then we will start and see some form of a level playing field and the unscrupulous paying their dues.

[paunium]

An agency is a Ltd company in its own right - as an independent business.
A so called Ltd company that is in reality just a driver is a tax dodge/fiddle.

[Jimrohy]

An agency is a Ltd company in its own right - as an independent business.
A so called Ltd company that is in reality just a driver is a tax dodge/fiddle.

a tax dodge if drivers were paid a fair rate they would not need to be looking at ways of tax dodging

[Traceyou]

An agency is a Ltd company in its own right - as an independent business.
A so called Ltd company that is in reality just a driver is a tax dodge/fiddle.

a tax dodge if drivers were paid a fair rate they would not need to be looking at ways of tax dodging

There is a lot going on with umbrella companies and trying to decide if they are an employer or not at the moment

[Rogerse]

An agency is a Ltd company in its own right - as an independent business.
A so called Ltd company that is in reality just a driver is a tax dodge/fiddle.

and the difference between a driver set up as LTD and an external self employed TM or any other one man band business is what?

[paunium]

An agency is a Ltd company in its own right - as an independent business.
A so called Ltd company that is in reality just a driver is a tax dodge/fiddle.

a tax dodge if drivers were paid a fair rate they would not need to be looking at ways of tax dodging

There is a lot going on with umbrella companies and trying to decide if they are an employer or not at the moment

fair pay or not fair pay - I guess that’s all down to opinion.

[paunium]

An agency is a Ltd company in its own right - as an independent business.
A so called Ltd company that is in reality just a driver is a tax dodge/fiddle.

and the difference between a driver set up as LTD and an external self employed TM or any other one man band business is what?

risk/control over hours/control over pay/ sick & holiday pay.

[Rogerse]

An agency is a Ltd company in its own right - as an independent business.
A so called Ltd company that is in reality just a driver is a tax dodge/fiddle.

and the difference between a driver set up as LTD and an external self employed TM or any other one man band business is what?

risk/control over hours/control over pay/ sick & holiday pay.

yes and? I'll ask again what's the difference between a driver setting up as limited and any other line of work?

[paunium]

and the difference between a driver set up as LTD and an external self employed TM or any other one man band business is what?

risk/control over hours/control over pay/ sick & holiday pay.

yes and? I'll ask again what's the difference between a driver setting up as limited and any other line of work?

nothing if he has his own vehicle, insurance, can determine his own hours. Doesn’t get paid holidays or sick pay. Is allowed to work for other people at his choosing. Etc etc etc

[Traceyou]

a tax dodge if drivers were paid a fair rate they would not need to be looking at ways of tax dodging

There is a lot going on with umbrella companies and trying to decide if they are an employer or not at the moment

fair pay or not fair pay - I guess that’s all down to opinion.

The crucial thing here is that the haulier is providing the tools and the work and a LTD or SE driver is exploiting the loopholes

[Rogerse]

risk/control over hours/control over pay/ sick & holiday pay.

yes and? I'll ask again what's the difference between a driver setting up as limited and any other line of work?

nothing if he has his own vehicle, insurance, can determine his own hours. Doesn’t get paid holidays or sick pay. Is allowed to work for other people at his choosing. Etc etc etc

exactly the same as a ltd company driver then.

[paunium]

There is a lot going on with umbrella companies and trying to decide if they are an employer or not at the moment

fair pay or not fair pay - I guess that’s all down to opinion.

The crucial thing here is that the haulier is providing the tools and the work and a LTD or SE driver is exploiting the loopholes

thank you for stating the bloody obvious. Some people just don’t want to see the answer.

[Rogerse]

There is a lot going on with umbrella companies and trying to decide if they are an employer or not at the moment

fair pay or not fair pay - I guess that’s all down to opinion.

The crucial thing here is that the haulier is providing the tools and the work and a LTD or SE driver is exploiting the loopholes

What about an office temp, would they be expected to supply the desk, chair and computer they are going to use?

[Traceyou]

fair pay or not fair pay - I guess that’s all down to opinion.

The crucial thing here is that the haulier is providing the tools and the work and a LTD or SE driver is exploiting the loopholes

What about an office temp, would they be expected to supply the desk, chair and computer they are going to use?

I was at a conference a few weeks ago and the senior TC was a guest speaker. He said that the new stat docs contained small tweaks

[paunium]

fair pay or not fair pay - I guess that’s all down to opinion.

The crucial thing here is that the haulier is providing the tools and the work and a LTD or SE driver is exploiting the loopholes

What about an office temp, would they be expected to supply the desk, chair and computer they are going to use?

Please go and do your own research and good luck finding the answers you want.

[Traceyou]

The crucial thing here is that the haulier is providing the tools and the work and a LTD or SE driver is exploiting the loopholes

What about an office temp, would they be expected to supply the desk, chair and computer they are going to use?

Please go and do your own research and good luck finding the answers you want.

What about if you are the regular consultant then you are not independent enough to represent the haulier at a PI?

[Rogerse]

The crucial thing here is that the haulier is providing the tools and the work and a LTD or SE driver is exploiting the loopholes

What about an office temp, would they be expected to supply the desk, chair and computer they are going to use?

Please go and do your own research and good luck finding the answers you want.

no need I'm not going LTD but I think you need to.

[paunium]

What about an office temp, would they be expected to supply the desk, chair and computer they are going to use?

Please go and do your own research and good luck finding the answers you want.

What about if you are the regular consultant then you are not independent enough to represent the haulier at a PI?

Ltd or not the difference is between EMPLOYED or SELF EMPLOYED

[Rogerse]

Please go and do your own research and good luck finding the answers you want.

What about if you are the regular consultant then you are not independent enough to represent the haulier at a PI?

Ltd or not the difference is between EMPLOYED or SELF EMPLOYED

it's terminology. Technically a driver working as a limited company is not self employed. He/she is employed by the limited company. The company invoices for the drivers time. Yes people do refer to such as self employed but they are mistaken. Sole traders are self employed and that is a completely different thing.

[paunium]

What about if you are the regular consultant then you are not independent enough to represent the haulier at a PI?

Ltd or not the difference is between EMPLOYED or SELF EMPLOYED

it's terminology. Technically a driver working as a limited company is not self employed. He/she is employed by the limited company. The company invoices for the drivers time. Yes people do refer to such as self employed but they are mistaken. Sole traders are self employed and that is a completely different thing.

good bye and good luck.

[Rogerse]

Ltd or not the difference is between EMPLOYED or SELF EMPLOYED

it's terminology. Technically a driver working as a limited company is not self employed. He/she is employed by the limited company. The company invoices for the drivers time. Yes people do refer to such as self employed but they are mistaken. Sole traders are self employed and that is a completely different thing.

good bye and good luck.

[donkindu]

not only is the driver exploiting loopholes, so is the haulier

[donkindu]

What about if you are the regular consultant then you are not independent enough to represent the haulier at a PI?

Ltd or not the difference is between EMPLOYED or SELF EMPLOYED

it's terminology. Technically a driver working as a limited company is not self employed. He/she is employed by the limited company. The company invoices for the drivers time. Yes people do refer to such as self employed but they are mistaken. Sole traders are self employed and that is a completely different thing.

that's correct. If you are limited and a Director, you are an employee of your own company. I sub myself out here and there.....my company invoices for my time, not me invoicing the client

[Rogerse]

Ltd or not the difference is between EMPLOYED or SELF EMPLOYED

it's terminology. Technically a driver working as a limited company is not self employed. He/she is employed by the limited company. The company invoices for the drivers time. Yes people do refer to such as self employed but they are mistaken. Sole traders are self employed and that is a completely different thing.

that's correct. If you are limited and a Director, you are an employee of your own company. I sub myself out here and there.....my company invoices for my time, not me invoicing the client

exactly, I dont understand why some find it so difficult grasp. There has been a lot of talk and rumblings from HMRC over the last year or so but I think some have got the wrong end of the stick. If there is going to be a clamp down on one man ltd companies it will be across the board not just drivers. But even then it will probably only be a tweak on NI payments, we will see.

[paunium]

it's terminology. Technically a driver working as a limited company is not self employed. He/she is employed by the limited company. The company invoices for the drivers time. Yes people do refer to such as self employed but they are mistaken. Sole traders are self employed and that is a completely different thing.

that's correct. If you are limited and a Director, you are an employee of your own company. I sub myself out here and there.....my company invoices for my time, not me invoicing the client

exactly, I dont understand why some find it so difficult grasp. There has been a lot of talk and rumblings from HMRC over the last year or so but I think some have got the wrong end of the stick. If there is going to be a clamp down on one man ltd companies it will be across the board not just drivers. But even then it will probably only be a tweak on NI payments, we will see.

In a similar but different business a good few years ago, a number of fairly big companies got slaughtered by HMRC for back taxes.

[donkindu]

it's terminology. Technically a driver working as a limited company is not self employed. He/she is employed by the limited company. The company invoices for the drivers time. Yes people do refer to such as self employed but they are mistaken. Sole traders are self employed and that is a completely different thing.

that's correct. If you are limited and a Director, you are an employee of your own company. I sub myself out here and there.....my company invoices for my time, not me invoicing the client

exactly, I dont understand why some find it so difficult grasp. There has been a lot of talk and rumblings from HMRC over the last year or so but I think some have got the wrong end of the stick. If there is going to be a clamp down on one man ltd companies it will be across the board not just drivers. But even then it will probably only be a tweak on NI payments, we will see.

It really pees me off that i run by the book and costs me a fortune for my liabilities. Per driver I am looking at 600 for tax and insurance, then 100 for the pension. Just think how much I could save by employing SE drivers!

[Rogerse]

that's correct. If you are limited and a Director, you are an employee of your own company. I sub myself out here and there.....my company invoices for my time, not me invoicing the client

exactly, I dont understand why some find it so difficult grasp. There has been a lot of talk and rumblings from HMRC over the last year or so but I think some have got the wrong end of the stick. If there is going to be a clamp down on one man ltd companies it will be across the board not just drivers. But even then it will probably only be a tweak on NI payments, we will see.

In a similar but different business a good few years ago, a number of fairly big companies got slaughtered by HMRC for back taxes.

then they were not following the rules and where avoiding paying the tax. Totally different.

[donkindu]

that's correct. If you are limited and a Director, you are an employee of your own company. I sub myself out here and there.....my company invoices for my time, not me invoicing the client

exactly, I dont understand why some find it so difficult grasp. There has been a lot of talk and rumblings from HMRC over the last year or so but I think some have got the wrong end of the stick. If there is going to be a clamp down on one man ltd companies it will be across the board not just drivers. But even then it will probably only be a tweak on NI payments, we will see.

In a similar but different business a good few years ago, a number of fairly big companies got slaughtered by HMRC for back taxes.

apparently, HMRC can go back 10 years

[paunium]

exactly, I dont understand why some find it so difficult grasp. There has been a lot of talk and rumblings from HMRC over the last year or so but I think some have got the wrong end of the stick. If there is going to be a clamp down on one man ltd companies it will be across the board not just drivers. But even then it will probably only be a tweak on NI payments, we will see.

In a similar but different business a good few years ago, a number of fairly big companies got slaughtered by HMRC for back taxes.

apparently, HMRC can go back 10 years

exactly the same. They were classing workers as self employed, so no holiday pay, no sick pay, no guaranteed hours and NO tax contributions from the “employers” side.
However, the work force were carrying non of the risk, were working exclusively for one company and using the insurance of the “agency” as they described themselves.
Funny how the taxman didn’t agree.

[Rogerse]

that's correct. If you are limited and a Director, you are an employee of your own company. I sub myself out here and there.....my company invoices for my time, not me invoicing the client

exactly, I dont understand why some find it so difficult grasp. There has been a lot of talk and rumblings from HMRC over the last year or so but I think some have got the wrong end of the stick. If there is going to be a clamp down on one man ltd companies it will be across the board not just drivers. But even then it will probably only be a tweak on NI payments, we will see.

It really pees me off that i run by the book and costs me a fortune for my liabilities. Per driver I am looking at 600 for tax and insurance, then 100 for the pension. Just think how much I could save by employing SE drivers!

I'd like to go back to being ltd but I'm not brave enough after the last attempt. I set myself up as a forklift instructor and was doing really well fairly quickly. I was working as much as I wanted but the local big boys got wind of me and slaughtered me on price. I had to give it up but I heard they soon put their prices back up once I'd gone.

[donkindu]

exactly, I dont understand why some find it so difficult grasp. There has been a lot of talk and rumblings from HMRC over the last year or so but I think some have got the wrong end of the stick. If there is going to be a clamp down on one man ltd companies it will be across the board not just drivers. But even then it will probably only be a tweak on NI payments, we will see.

It really pees me off that i run by the book and costs me a fortune for my liabilities. Per driver I am looking at 600 for tax and insurance, then 100 for the pension. Just think how much I could save by employing SE drivers!

I'd like to go back to being ltd but I'm not brave enough after the last attempt. I set myself up as a forklift instructor and was doing really well fairly quickly. I was working as much as I wanted but the local big boys got wind of me and slaughtered me on price. I had to give it up but I heard they soon put their prices back up once I'd gone.

It's a tough call Roger and I get headaches daily!!!

[camton_1777]

Drivers have had no choice to go down this route in past years as so many hauliers out there not willing to take men on the books it's no different to the construction world lads being paid via cis as companys aren't willing to pay holiday pay and so on so no one can blame individual drivers or construction workers companys need to get their rates up and stop being so greedy also be willing to look after the men and woman out there working 70 hours a week

[Traceyou]

Drivers have had no choice to go down this route in past years as so many hauliers out there not willing to take men on the books it's no different to the construction world lads being paid via cis as companys aren't willing to pay holiday pay and so on so no one can blame individual drivers or construction workers companys need to get their rates up and stop being so greedy also be willing to look after the men and woman out there working 70 hours a week

It is the likes of DHL and Wincanton working on such very small margins that have contributed to this current situation

[camton_1777]

Drivers have had no choice to go down this route in past years as so many hauliers out there not willing to take men on the books it's no different to the construction world lads being paid via cis as companys aren't willing to pay holiday pay and so on so no one can blame individual drivers or construction workers companys need to get their rates up and stop being so greedy also be willing to look after the men and woman out there working 70 hours a week

It is the likes of DHL and Wincanton working on such very small margins that have contributed to this current situation

they put themselves in that position by trying to undercut everyone

[Traceyou]

Drivers have had no choice to go down this route in past years as so many hauliers out there not willing to take men on the books it's no different to the construction world lads being paid via cis as companys aren't willing to pay holiday pay and so on so no one can blame individual drivers or construction workers companys need to get their rates up and stop being so greedy also be willing to look after the men and woman out there working 70 hours a week

It is the likes of DHL and Wincanton working on such very small margins that have contributed to this current situation

they put themselves in that position by trying to undercut everyone

When you have squeezed suppliers as much as possible the only other thing to cut is staff and or wages

[camton_1777]

It is the likes of DHL and Wincanton working on such very small margins that have contributed to this current situation

they put themselves in that position by trying to undercut everyone

When you have squeezed suppliers as much as possible the only other thing to cut is staff and or wages

to the point you loose money as you dont have the means of moving as much as you have less drivers lol

[Traceyou]

they put themselves in that position by trying to undercut everyone

When you have squeezed suppliers as much as possible the only other thing to cut is staff and or wages

to the point you loose money as you dont have the means of moving as much as you have less drivers lol

That's why you find so many agency drivers working for them and this time of year they will pre-book to make sure they get enough

[camton_1777]

When you have squeezed suppliers as much as possible the only other thing to cut is staff and or wages

to the point you loose money as you dont have the means of moving as much as you have less drivers lol

That's why you find so many agency drivers working for them and this time of year they will pre-book to make sure they get enough

agency drivers who cost alot more per hour than a full time driver it just goes round in circles

[Traceyou]

to the point you loose money as you dont have the means of moving as much as you have less drivers lol

That's why you find so many agency drivers working for them and this time of year they will pre-book to make sure they get enough

agency drivers who cost alot more per hour than a full time driver it just goes round in circles

I know but it is all slowly coming to a head as HMRC try to get as much tax in as they can

[Migy_suav]

So I'm planning to go ltd. Just work for different agencies and contacts ' holiday /sick etc. So is that legal?

[paunium]

So I'm planning to go ltd. Just work for different agencies and contacts ' holiday /sick etc. So is that legal?

on the face of it I’d say it’s ok - as long as you have your own truck/insurance.

[Migy_suav]

So I'm planning to go ltd. Just work for different agencies and contacts ' holiday /sick etc. So is that legal?

on the face of it I’d say it’s ok - as long as you have your own truck/insurance.

And how much is that?

[paunium]

So I'm planning to go ltd. Just work for different agencies and contacts ' holiday /sick etc. So is that legal?

on the face of it I’d say it’s ok - as long as you have your own truck/insurance.

And how much is that?

[Rogerse]

on the face of it I’d say it’s ok - as long as you have your own truck/insurance.

And how much is that?

You can't insure a vehicle twice. You should think about public liability insurance and you can take out some kind of damage insurance.

[paunium]

And how much is that?

You can't insure a vehicle twice. You should think about public liability insurance and you can take out some kind of damage insurance.

why would you need to insure it twice? Part of the criteria for being self employed is risk and independence. If you are not driving your OWN truck and you’re NOT the one insuring it I doubt very much if you are really self employed.

[Rogerse]

You can't insure a vehicle twice. You should think about public liability insurance and you can take out some kind of damage insurance.

why would you need to insure it twice? Part of the criteria for being self employed is risk and independence. If you are not driving your OWN truck and you’re NOT the one insuring it I doubt very much if you are really self employed.

so are you an external TM? Using your logic I'd suggest that unless you are an employee or the owner of the company you are not the TM.

[paunium]

You can't insure a vehicle twice. You should think about public liability insurance and you can take out some kind of damage insurance.

why would you need to insure it twice? Part of the criteria for being self employed is risk and independence. If you are not driving your OWN truck and you’re NOT the one insuring it I doubt very much if you are really self employed.

so are you an external TM? Using your logic I'd suggest that unless you are an employee or the owner of the company you are not the TM.

,,,

[paunium]

You can't insure a vehicle twice. You should think about public liability insurance and you can take out some kind of damage insurance.

why would you need to insure it twice? Part of the criteria for being self employed is risk and independence. If you are not driving your OWN truck and you’re NOT the one insuring it I doubt very much if you are really self employed.

so are you an external TM? Using your logic I'd suggest that unless you are an employee or the owner of the company you are not the TM.

Just a snippet of what’s publicly available

[Rogerse]

why would you need to insure it twice? Part of the criteria for being self employed is risk and independence. If you are not driving your OWN truck and you’re NOT the one insuring it I doubt very much if you are really self employed.

so are you an external TM? Using your logic I'd suggest that unless you are an employee or the owner of the company you are not the TM.

Just a snippet of what’s publicly available

and that applies to all ltd or self employed. So a plumber does not have control of his hours if he provides a 24 hour emergency service?

[paunium]

so are you an external TM? Using your logic I'd suggest that unless you are an employee or the owner of the company you are not the TM.

Just a snippet of what’s publicly available

and that applies to all ltd or self employed. So a plumber does not have control of his hours if he provides a 24 hour emergency service?

he does. If he doesn’t want to go - he doesn’t have to.

[Rogerse]

Just a snippet of what’s publicly available

and that applies to all ltd or self employed. So a plumber does not have control of his hours if he provides a 24 hour emergency service?

he does. If he doesn’t want to go - he doesn’t have to.

and if the driver doesn't want to go they don't have to. I really can't see a difference.

[Migy_suav]

and that applies to all ltd or self employed. So a plumber does not have control of his hours if he provides a 24 hour emergency service?

he does. If he doesn’t want to go - he doesn’t have to.

and if the driver doesn't want to go they don't have to. I really can't see a difference.

Would it be best just to contact h r m c and put it to them? Then your covered.

[Traceyou]

No one has yet speculated as to whether this could have an impact on external TMs as most are self employed

[Rogerse]

No one has yet speculated as to whether this could have an impact on external TMs as most are self employed

or any other one man band business.

[Traceyou]

As ever things from OTC tend to be part of a bigger plan and it will be interesting to see what follows the introduction of trailer registrations especially as that is going to be anything above 750kg gross. Starts with international hire and reward journeys but watch that get rolled out a lot further.

[tyre6rtso]

With regards to agency drivers being self employed I use to own my own agency and took legal advice on this as long as they had there own insurance employers /public liability and driver negligence insurance they could be classed as self employed it all comes down to the interpretation of IR35 rules in relation to companies using ltd company drivers rather then employing drivers under PAYE scheme they are deemed to have an unfair financial advantage as they don’t pay employers NI at around 13% no holiday pay, no pension contributions and no sick pay

[Migy_suav]

With regards to agency drivers being self employed I use to own my own agency and took legal advice on this as long as they had there own insurance employers /public liability and driver negligence insurance they could be classed as self employed it all comes down to the interpretation of IR35 rules in relation to companies using ltd company drivers rather then employing drivers under PAYE scheme they are deemed to have an unfair financial advantage as they don’t pay employers NI at around 13% no holiday pay, no pension contributions and no sick pay

How much is the average insurance cost for a ltd driver?

[tyre6rtso]

With regards to agency drivers being self employed I use to own my own agency and took legal advice on this as long as they had there own insurance employers /public liability and driver negligence insurance they could be classed as self employed it all comes down to the interpretation of IR35 rules in relation to companies using ltd company drivers rather then employing drivers under PAYE scheme they are deemed to have an unfair financial advantage as they don’t pay employers NI at around 13% no holiday pay, no pension contributions and no sick pay

How much is the average insurance cost for a ltd driver?

The TC does frown upon companies who for example have 12 vehicles but only employ say 4 drivers and run the rest on external “LTD” company drivers

[tyre6rtso]

With regards to agency drivers being self employed I use to own my own agency and took legal advice on this as long as they had there own insurance employers /public liability and driver negligence insurance they could be classed as self employed it all comes down to the interpretation of IR35 rules in relation to companies using ltd company drivers rather then employing drivers under PAYE scheme they are deemed to have an unfair financial advantage as they don’t pay employers NI at around 13% no holiday pay, no pension contributions and no sick pay

How much is the average insurance cost for a ltd driver?

it was surprisingly not to expensive I closed my agency around 4/5 years ago but think the insurances were around £150/200 for liabilities and maybe another £200 ish for driver Neg per annum

[Migy_suav]

With regards to agency drivers being self employed I use to own my own agency and took legal advice on this as long as they had there own insurance employers /public liability and driver negligence insurance they could be classed as self employed it all comes down to the interpretation of IR35 rules in relation to companies using ltd company drivers rather then employing drivers under PAYE scheme they are deemed to have an unfair financial advantage as they don’t pay employers NI at around 13% no holiday pay, no pension contributions and no sick pay

How much is the average insurance cost for a ltd driver?

it was surprisingly not to expensive I closed my agency around 4/5 years ago but think the insurances were around £150/200 for liabilities and maybe another £200 ish for driver Neg per annum

Thanks

[Bluecorn]

A recently publish PI clarifies Ltd Driver would be classed as using the veh, as such the Ltd Co is using veh without O licence.
Beware the operator could end up being at PI for fronting
All fir the sake of not doing it right