Is there any ex coppers on the forum that know the laws on speeding on a private road? Speed past the coppers this

[hitche]

The issue with this one is the reason for issuing it...did you drive without due care and attention? If not, you can have this taken off (it lasts 12 months and if you got caught again with it in place, the vehicle you are in can be seized) as speed is NOT applicable for a s59 UNLESS due care is involved

[Shauniv]

The issue with this one is the reason for issuing it...did you drive without due care and attention? If not, you can have this taken off (it lasts 12 months and if you got caught again with it in place, the vehicle you are in can be seized) as speed is NOT applicable for a s59 UNLESS due care is involved

if your driving faster than the speed limit, you are driving without due care and attention, there is no such thing as speeding safely with full attention

[hitche]

The issue with this one is the reason for issuing it...did you drive without due care and attention? If not, you can have this taken off (it lasts 12 months and if you got caught again with it in place, the vehicle you are in can be seized) as speed is NOT applicable for a s59 UNLESS due care is involved

if your driving faster than the speed limit, you are driving without due care and attention, there is no such thing as speeding safely with full attention

Wrong and wrong! Google is your friend on this one…and the Road Traffic Act

[Shauniv]

The issue with this one is the reason for issuing it...did you drive without due care and attention? If not, you can have this taken off (it lasts 12 months and if you got caught again with it in place, the vehicle you are in can be seized) as speed is NOT applicable for a s59 UNLESS due care is involved

if your driving faster than the speed limit, you are driving without due care and attention, there is no such thing as speeding safely with full attention

Wrong and wrong! Google is your friend on this one…and the Road Traffic Act

you are absolutely correct, Google is my friend
"Or without reasonable consideration to other persons using the road or the place"
I would say speeding would fall under that statement... And so it seems would the police.
Thanks anyway

[hitche]

if your driving faster than the speed limit, you are driving without due care and attention, there is no such thing as speeding safely with full attention

Wrong and wrong! Google is your friend on this one…and the Road Traffic Act

you are absolutely correct, Google is my friend
"Or without reasonable consideration to other persons using the road or the place"
I would say speeding would fall under that statement... And so it seems would the police.
Thanks anyway

My reply was based on the OP's facts as stated...just speeding, no other issues mentioned and no one else using the road.
If speeding was also deemed to be driving without due care and attention then everyone getting caught speeding would be getting prosecuted surely?

[Shauniv]

Wrong and wrong! Google is your friend on this one…and the Road Traffic Act

you are absolutely correct, Google is my friend
"Or without reasonable consideration to other persons using the road or the place"
I would say speeding would fall under that statement... And so it seems would the police.
Thanks anyway

My reply was based on the OP's facts as stated...just speeding, no other issues mentioned and no one else using the road.
If speeding was also deemed to be driving without due care and attention then everyone getting caught speeding would be getting prosecuted surely?

no? For starters you can only be charged with one offence, you can't be done for speeding, AND driving without due care, secondly if you're caught speeding you will be fined, exactly the same as if you're caught driving without due care and attention?
If the police were parked up and can't prove what speed the driver was doing then they can't do the. For speeding... What they can do is using their experience do them for driving without due care and attention, if the op doesn't agree with it, he can take it to court and fight it out there.
The fact this is only a section 59... I wouldn't be wasting my time or money taking it to court

[hinCapo]

It may be a private road however if a public right of way exists then the normal laws apply

[Rezureme]

A section 59 is a we can’t actually prove what you did wrong at the moment but we want to be arseholes anyway

[rickappTIC]

Not sure I am buying this theory that if a road isn’t gated then it’s classed as the queens highway, private land is private land unless a public right of way is registered, worlds gone mad

[Timefer]

Not sure I am buying this theory that if a road isn’t gated then it’s classed as the queens highway, private land is private land unless a public right of way is registered, worlds gone mad

gunna put a gate on my drive

[Paulish]

Not sure I am buying this theory that if a road isn’t gated then it’s classed as the queens highway, private land is private land unless a public right of way is registered, worlds gone mad

gunna put a gate on my drive

I’ve already put a gate on my drive so the police can’t sit on mine eating there donuts

[Chubb9res]

Not sure I am buying this theory that if a road isn’t gated then it’s classed as the queens highway, private land is private land unless a public right of way is registered, worlds gone mad

King's*

[Timefer]

Not sure I am buying this theory that if a road isn’t gated then it’s classed as the queens highway, private land is private land unless a public right of way is registered, worlds gone mad

King's*

is always a couple of months behind

[jackery]

100% correct, If the public can access it then laws must be followed. Gated is another story, you can do what you want within reason.

[Mikev_pion]

Tell em to f**k offfff

[Jonathin_Ree]

I have a private road , and it’s got a gate that sometimes is open and sometimes it’s closed , it belongs to me and I can do what I want on it !

[jn0steinfo]

So … does anybody know the real answer

[Kylessor]

I’ve had a section 59 before and they can more or less issue one just if they feel like it. I don’t think you can appeal it but on the bright side you don’t get a court date, fine or points so chuck it in the bin and try not get one for another 12 months or they will seize the vehicle.

[stanLife]

Why where you speeding?

[fittonic]

Amazing how many on here just agree with the police then again they all call Boris a liar but stayed home and were good little boys when he told them to even tho they say he’s a liar

[Smilind]

Amazing how many on here just agree with the police then again they all call Boris a liar but stayed home and were good little boys when he told them to even tho they say he’s a liar

thats because we have read the law, its quite easy to find and read and it does define it.

[440-scotteric]

When I was on Police Recovery if you got a 2nd section 59 in 6 months they would seize your car but you could pay recovery agent the release fee £150 at the time and get your vehicle back,no points just an on the spot fine basically,I've even given drivers a lift back to garage,took their money and they are on their way to do it again .

[ReiwoRenes]

Shoulder number 15199, was that Derbyshire by any chance ?

[KennIInstant]

It’s all down to who maintains the road.. if it’s your company then it’s private.. if it’s council maintained then it’s public and is controlled buy the relevant road traffic laws.. there will be prob some agreement written somewhere in the deeds that gives your company access to there property…

[Smilind]

It’s all down to who maintains the road.. if it’s your company then it’s private.. if it’s council maintained then it’s public and is controlled buy the relevant road traffic laws.. there will be prob some agreement written somewhere in the deeds that gives your company access to there property…

no its not. Its down to the definition of "public highway" and that changes depending upon the exact legislation.
A "Public Highway" in the Road Traffic Act (and others) is any road to which the public has free access, and can include supermarket car parks.
A "Publicly Maintainable Highway" such as in the Vehicle Excise and Registration Act is defined as one maintained by public expense (i.e. by the council).

[darrest]

They can hand you a section 59 for driving like a cock around McDonald’s car park so you’ve got no chance of getting out of it now and if you’ve been gobby with them then I’d be very careful as the next time they see you they can now impound your
Car for pretty much anything they fancy

[ratihabition]

You must of been driving like a total c**k to get a section 59

[jose.vander]

When they say private property, is it somewhere where public are allowed access ie right of access or completed privately owned as in a house with a load of land?
That’s what you need to know, alit of places are private property with public access
Also section 59 can be issued on any “highway” so doesn’t need to be a “road” Per-say
I’d say unless it’s his mates privately owned estate with land and driveway leading only to the house (so no right of access) they are right to issue it
Technically the m6 toll road is a private road but you still can’t do 90 down it

[Apell+Unwell]

Police don't have any right on private land, other then if it was life or death.... lol would mean if you don't have a gate on upur harden they can issue tickets for lotering in your garden etc lol

[Smilind]

Police don't have any right on private land, other then if it was life or death.... lol would mean if you don't have a gate on upur harden they can issue tickets for lotering in your garden etc lol

Correct, but if its allowed to have public access then its not private land, the owner is irrelevant.

[Apell+Unwell]

Police don't have any right on private land, other then if it was life or death.... lol would mean if you don't have a gate on upur harden they can issue tickets for lotering in your garden etc lol

Correct, but if its allowed to have public access then its not private land, the owner is irrelevant.

nope it's not cut and dry, there is no right or wrong answer you would have to appeal the fine as they don't have full.rights to police private road if you go check.
The gate thing isn't even mentioned either...

[Smilind]

Police don't have any right on private land, other then if it was life or death.... lol would mean if you don't have a gate on upur harden they can issue tickets for lotering in your garden etc lol

Correct, but if its allowed to have public access then its not private land, the owner is irrelevant.

nope it's not cut and dry, there is no right or wrong answer you would have to appeal the fine as they don't have full.rights to police private road if you go check.
The gate thing isn't even mentioned either...

the "gate thing" is case law. A gate must be installed and closed once a year to avoid public rights accruing (Christmas day is traditional) OR there must be clearly posted notices indicating it is both private land and that the public have no right of access- except in the case of a residential dwelling (so rights can't accrue on your driveway, but they can on Tesco's).
Some 85% of the 'Council' maintained roads are not within their freehold, and don't forget all PROW (Footpaths, Bridleways etc) which are the responsibility of the landowner to maintain also come under the Highways Act.

[2069-norem]

Police don't have any right on private land, other then if it was life or death.... lol would mean if you don't have a gate on upur harden they can issue tickets for lotering in your garden etc lol

loitering is no longer an offence. You can stand on a street corner all you like. However loitering with intent is an offence.

[Mikenn]

Don't drive like a c**t, you won't get a Section 59. Lesson learned - hopefully.

[DyDuncarr]

It has to be gated and shut to become private. Otherwise classed as public highway and subject to traffic laws.

[Ambivalence]

Any way other than a waterway over which, or any tunnel through which the public have access to whether by payment or not and includes the roads verge is the definition of a road under the Road Traffic Act
Maybe not a verbatim definition but best I can remember
The bit about being maintained at public expense is an add on for the vehicles excise act
In a nut shell if you can drive on a track without having to open a gate etc ( access roads to farms etc) then it’s a road and also includes car parks that you have to pay for then you can get done for anything under the RTA.
If it’s a ‘private’ road that is not maintained at public expense then you don’t need a tax disc

[522.duncanno]

As long as the posties use it then it's not a private road ( so I've been told )

[PattKaptain]

If it’s private ground they need permission to be there for a start. They can’t just wander into your garden, for example, to hang the speed gun out of the shrubbery

[Smilind]

If it’s private ground they need permission to be there for a start. They can’t just wander into your garden, for example, to hang the speed gun out of the shrubbery

the owner is irrelevant, it you freely allow the public access without payment or restriction then its public in the eyes of the law (Tesco Car park).
Keep in mind most council roads are not "owned" by the council (as in they own the freehold to the land).

[Baddogix]

The road traffic act governs private roads where the public have access. So in general a private road is almost the same as any public road.

[MicRonz]

Private road can still be a public place and you can still be a nuisance.
Legit S.59

[rogerve]

I’ve heard this before with dink driving in Supermarket car parks. Probably the same principle applies here.

[DEANCHIN]

You've got a section 59, not a speeding ticket.
It literally tells you on the notice where to look for the legalities around the notice.

[Iddoner-Lo]

The gates need to be closed i think twice a year to stay as private. But if there is public access you can get done for driving offences....but whats the speed limit on this private road? Section 59s are annoying ...next time they stop you they can take your car.. for no reason but they are bored and an arsehole

[McMathewinno]

I wouldn’t worry about it.
It’s a warning, that’s all, and to be fair, one could say you were driving in an anti-social manner, but either way, there isn’t a fine, and no points.
Just a life lesson that coppers can be parked up where you least expect it!

[Jammsta]

I see they've dispensed on their paperwork with the words "being used in a manner to cause alarm or distress to a member of the public".
S59 is one of the worst pieces of legislation I've ever come across. It sits there with no right of challenge, unlike almost every other piece of punitive measure.

[Monty1061]

Any road that invites the public onto it they can inforce road traffic if grated they can’t

[golecTorph]

Any road that invites the public onto it they can inforce road traffic if grated they can’t

grates only stop the cattle element of the public out....so you will still be nicked.

[Monty1061]

Any road that invites the public onto it they can inforce road traffic if grated they can’t

grates only stop the cattle element of the public out....so you will still be nicked.

supposed to say gate but it was auto corrected

[merillz]

Who’s clever now

[Moor2nder]

It’s a bit like the old McDonald ms carpark thing.. the police can still fine you if your using your phone in McDonald’s or Tesco carpark etc as I think it’s to do with public access.. I’m not 100%

[1550_gaillo]

I thought a section 59 was classed as a warning! Maybe I’m wrong

[1550_gaillo]

,

[BellNeo]

I’m no expert, but the gate open excuse seems pretty lame.
Imagine the gate being a mile down the road and someone visiting leaves it open.
How can you be responsible for making sure the gate is closed permanently.

[faicore47]

Section 59 not a speeding ticket, you can get one for pushing your m/bike on a footpath through a park & everything else that’s not within the Highway Code,& get 2 within a year & it gets taken off you & you have to pay to get it out of the compound £150 at the min + storage fees

[SteHyper]

Easy to sort mate. Next time u see them there. Block the entrance lock the doors and walk the lane check it’s safe to proceed

[BonnexZo]

i thought that if the road had a way in and a way out then if you break the law you can be done even on private property it’s like a car park if it has only one entrance in and the same entrance out then i believe you can’t be done

[carney]

Aggrivated tresspass they have no authority.

[RiSerene]

If the public have access then the rules apply. It classifies as 'other public place' in the act. That is why he said it needs to be gated to be a private road, no public access. However, it is for inconsiderate driving, not speeding. The Road Traffic Act 1988, Section 3
"If a person drives a mechanically propelled vehicle on a road or other public place without due care and attention, or without reasonable consideration for other persons using the road or place, he is guilty of an offence."

[foxrime]

Don't drive like a knob I suppose, that's the moral.

[syhesStu]

The law is the law of the land…if you murder someone on private land you’ll still be prosecuted for murder..same as driving like a loon…

[Joniollo]

Just don't be a d**k and speed

[HAWKAYTVER]

It's only a warning you are not getting done

[2069-norem]

Does the road traffic act include 'private roads'. . I was kead to believe if the said private road was gated and closed for a continuous 24hour period over the year then it's excluded from the laws they normally close them on Christmas day to get the full on 'private' bit.

[Whernage]

Regardless of the road..you were charged with driving like a d**k..next time..you lose the vehicle..suck it up.

[pumaxi]

A section 59 is not for speeding. It's as per your paperwork and can be issued anywhere, even on private land. I use to do a lot with 4x4s and it is a good way of stopping them. By the way, it use to be, if you get a 2nd in 12 months they will take the vehicle away!!