Any advice would be appreciated. Has anyone got experience with weight prohibitions issued using portable weighpads?

[AndryUrman]

Has anyone got experience with weight prohibitions issued using portable weighpads? One of our vans towing a twin axle trailer was recently stopped by DVSA and weighed using portable weighpads. Only one axle was weighed at a time and no dummy pads or levelling mats were used meaning the axle being weighed was always higher than the other axles. We were issued with a prohibition for excess weight, however going on the empty tare weight of the vehicle and trailer (which we have previously weighed using a conventional weighbridge) together with the weight of the goods we were carrying we should have been well within limits. Any advice would be appreciated.

[Sullivate]

Without knowing the results across each axle and the plated weight of both the vehicle and trailer, it will be hard to assist you.
As each axle has its own maximum permitted weight, I'd assume from the information provided, its been a matter of weight distribution and a lack of understanding of the law.

[ThomileRD]

Was it over on its GVW, train weight or axle weight? . If its axle weight, could be as simple as, goods being in the wrong position.
If its train weight, could be along the lines of, vehicle is within its GVW but over its towing weight eg:
Van plated weight is 3.5 ton
Maximum Authorised Mass 6.0 ton
Giving it a towing capacity of 2.5 ton
Meaning in reality , if the trailer and load weighed 3 ton (combined) and the van was empty at say 2.4 ton.
You could be under the vehicles gross weight (MAM) by 600kg but still over its towing weight by 500kg.
To many variables to consider based on your post. Hope this helps.

[chrNaybors]

Sounds like an axel weight issue rather than gross weight from how you have described it.

[AndryUrman]

Over on both trailer axles and trailer GVW. My question is if this could have been caused by the portable weight pads being used on one axle at a time without dummy pads or levelling mats on the other axle, meaning the axle being measured was higher and hence taking more weight?

[ThomileRD]

Over on both trailer axles and trailer GVW. My question is if this could have been caused by the portable weight pads being used on one axle at a time without dummy pads or levelling mats on the other axle, meaning the axle being measured was higher and hence taking more weight?

whats the make and model of the trailer?

[AndryUrman]

Over on both trailer axles and trailer GVW. My question is if this could have been caused by the portable weight pads being used on one axle at a time without dummy pads or levelling mats on the other axle, meaning the axle being measured was higher and hence taking more weight?

whats the make and model of the trailer?

I for Williams 3500kg plant trailer

[ThomileRD]

Over on both trailer axles and trailer GVW. My question is if this could have been caused by the portable weight pads being used on one axle at a time without dummy pads or levelling mats on the other axle, meaning the axle being measured was higher and hence taking more weight?

whats the make and model of the trailer?

I for Williams 3500kg plant trailer

I wouldn't be contesting it then, you're grossly overweight on the trailer alone. I'm surprised they didn't have you for being over on train weight and MAM.
Theres only a handful of vans purpose built to actually tow 3.5t to begin with. As others have said take as a learning curve and move on.

[ThrillTribee]

Over on both trailer axles and trailer GVW. My question is if this could have been caused by the portable weight pads being used on one axle at a time without dummy pads or levelling mats on the other axle, meaning the axle being measured was higher and hence taking more weight?

no.

[Jrba]

Over on both trailer axles and trailer GVW. My question is if this could have been caused by the portable weight pads being used on one axle at a time without dummy pads or levelling mats on the other axle, meaning the axle being measured was higher and hence taking more weight?

I would argue that the raised axle is taking less weight, for example just look at a standard tri-axle trailer when fully freighted and you'll notice that the rear axle has a bigger bulge than the other two. I think you're looking for something that isn't there.

[AndryUrman]

Over on both trailer axles and trailer GVW. My question is if this could have been caused by the portable weight pads being used on one axle at a time without dummy pads or levelling mats on the other axle, meaning the axle being measured was higher and hence taking more weight?

I would argue that the raised axle is taking less weight, for example just look at a standard tri-axle trailer when fully freighted and you'll notice that the rear axle has a bigger bulge than the other two. I think you're looking for something that isn't there.

On a double axle trailer if one wheel is raised that will have more weight on it. If it was raised enough, there would be no weight at all on the other wheel that side.

[huw.husker]

Over on both trailer axles and trailer GVW. My question is if this could have been caused by the portable weight pads being used on one axle at a time without dummy pads or levelling mats on the other axle, meaning the axle being measured was higher and hence taking more weight?

I think you are right, if you had a ruler with a weight at each end, resting on 3 level pins, one at one end and 2 spaced near the centre, then raised any one of the pins then it would take more weight than the other 2. To say something that weighs 2500kg in the manufacturers data weighs in at 3700kg then something is wrong. In that situation I would ask to weigh each axle with the trailer unhitched and jockey wheel up to get a better reading and see what the difference is.

[ThrillTribee]

When DVSA use weigh pads they use two of them. So they only ever weigh one axle at a time. They cannot issue a fixed penalty or prosecute but they can issue a prohibition, unless it was done on a certified site.

[AndryUrman]

The trailer by itself weighed in at 750kg. The weight of the load according the the manufacturers website and specification sheet is just below 2500kg, so say 2500kg to allow for the small amount of fuel in the tank should have left 250kg spare. Instead it was 1220kg over.

[1613-heny]

There are huge tolerances built in that are taken into account. Your trailer was excessively over this though so no excuse. The only saving grace is that DVSA chooses not to prosecute based on mobile plates only prohibit. You got a free pass there my friend. Learn and move on.

[bryan9]

You can request to be taken to the nearest public weigh bridge which must be operated by the staff not Dvsa

[ThrillTribee]

You can request to be taken to the nearest public weigh bridge which must be operated by the staff not Dvsa

not sure where you’re getting that information. You have to follow the directions and instructions from the DVSA Examiners for a start. The next thing is the Examiner will not permit (or shouldn’t) an overloaded vehicle under prohibition on the road.

[bryan9]

You can request to be taken to the nearest public weigh bridge which must be operated by the staff not Dvsa

not sure where you’re getting that information. You have to follow the directions and instructions from the DVSA Examiners for a start. The next thing is the Examiner will not permit (or shouldn’t) an overloaded vehicle under prohibition on the road.

I will need to trawl through some pages but basically if you are weighed on individual pads at a location not designed for that purpose ie not perfectly level, and they do not have sufficient dummy pads to support the other axles to give an accurate reading then you have to right to dispute it and be escorted to an official weigh bridge.
I’ve seen numerous occasions where the Dvsa have not correctly weighed individual axles which then give a false high reading to be proven incorrect when weighed at a designated weight facility.

[ThrillTribee]

You can request to be taken to the nearest public weigh bridge which must be operated by the staff not Dvsa

not sure where you’re getting that information. You have to follow the directions and instructions from the DVSA Examiners for a start. The next thing is the Examiner will not permit (or shouldn’t) an overloaded vehicle under prohibition on the road.

I will need to trawl through some pages but basically if you are weighed on individual pads at a location not designed for that purpose ie not perfectly level, and they do not have sufficient dummy pads to support the other axles to give an accurate reading then you have to right to dispute it and be escorted to an official weigh bridge.
I’ve seen numerous occasions where the Dvsa have not correctly weighed individual axles which then give a false high reading to be proven incorrect when weighed at a designated weight facility.

never heard of this.

[bryan9]

not sure where you’re getting that information. You have to follow the directions and instructions from the DVSA Examiners for a start. The next thing is the Examiner will not permit (or shouldn’t) an overloaded vehicle under prohibition on the road.

I will need to trawl through some pages but basically if you are weighed on individual pads at a location not designed for that purpose ie not perfectly level, and they do not have sufficient dummy pads to support the other axles to give an accurate reading then you have to right to dispute it and be escorted to an official weigh bridge.
I’ve seen numerous occasions where the Dvsa have not correctly weighed individual axles which then give a false high reading to be proven incorrect when weighed at a designated weight facility.

never heard of this.

same principle as a breath test, they cannot prosecute from a road side reading, it has to be a reading from the machine at the station or from a blood test.

[ThrillTribee]

I will need to trawl through some pages but basically if you are weighed on individual pads at a location not designed for that purpose ie not perfectly level, and they do not have sufficient dummy pads to support the other axles to give an accurate reading then you have to right to dispute it and be escorted to an official weigh bridge.
I’ve seen numerous occasions where the Dvsa have not correctly weighed individual axles which then give a false high reading to be proven incorrect when weighed at a designated weight facility.

never heard of this.

same principle as a breath test, they cannot prosecute from a road side reading, it has to be a reading from the machine at the station or from a blood test.

the comparison to drink driving doesn’t translate. I issued hundreds of overweight prohibitions and I have never heard of anything you’re saying. And it is against DVSA policy to allow a vehicle that has been weighed, regardless of whether it’s on a weigh bridge or on weigh plates, back on the road when the Examiner knows it’s illegal. If something happened during the‘let’s weigh it again journey (which is also against DVSA policy, as you can only weigh a vehicle once) and resulted in a RTC and someone was seriously injured then the Examiner would have to explain why they permitted the overweight illegal vehicle back on the road to get it checked weighed. I’m afraid I disagree totally with you and have never heard of this but if you can, as you said you could, show us something that states what you are saying then I will apologise.

[ThrillTribee]

I will need to trawl through some pages but basically if you are weighed on individual pads at a location not designed for that purpose ie not perfectly level, and they do not have sufficient dummy pads to support the other axles to give an accurate reading then you have to right to dispute it and be escorted to an official weigh bridge.
I’ve seen numerous occasions where the Dvsa have not correctly weighed individual axles which then give a false high reading to be proven incorrect when weighed at a designated weight facility.

never heard of this.

same principle as a breath test, they cannot prosecute from a road side reading, it has to be a reading from the machine at the station or from a blood test.

I’m afraid you has listened to too many whispers on the grapevine. Never heard of anything like he’s saying. If a vehicle is prohibited for being overloaded the weight should be removed before any further travel is permitted. I had my Area Manager tell me in no uncertain terms that if they’re overloaded they stay there until they are legal.

[ThrillTribee]

I will need to trawl through some pages but basically if you are weighed on individual pads at a location not designed for that purpose ie not perfectly level, and they do not have sufficient dummy pads to support the other axles to give an accurate reading then you have to right to dispute it and be escorted to an official weigh bridge.
I’ve seen numerous occasions where the Dvsa have not correctly weighed individual axles which then give a false high reading to be proven incorrect when weighed at a designated weight facility.

never heard of this.

same principle as a breath test, they cannot prosecute from a road side reading, it has to be a reading from the machine at the station or from a blood test.

I know what my answer would have been…NO.

[bryan9]

never heard of this.

same principle as a breath test, they cannot prosecute from a road side reading, it has to be a reading from the machine at the station or from a blood test.

I know what my answer would have been…NO.

ok so let’s say Dvsa weigh my trailer and they do not support all 4 axles of the trailer whilst weighing and level the rear axle of the car on level ground?
This is an entirely plausible situation where by the weight measurement would never be accurate.
Are you saying that in that case, even though I know 100% that the load is legal because I’ve checked it on a purpose built, certified weight scale, with a weight ticket as proof that I then have to bow down to an inaccurate measurement system?
I don’t think so.

[bryan9]

never heard of this.

same principle as a breath test, they cannot prosecute from a road side reading, it has to be a reading from the machine at the station or from a blood test.

I’m afraid you has listened to too many whispers on the grapevine. Never heard of anything like he’s saying. If a vehicle is prohibited for being overloaded the weight should be removed before any further travel is permitted. I had my Area Manager tell me in no uncertain terms that if they’re overloaded they stay there until they are legal.

These are the same clowns that will give false measurements on loads to exceed the 2.9m limit so they can pump the numbers.
They work on targets, same as ones that hide in vans on open roads in “safety camera vans”.
It’s all about tickets.
Don’t get me wrong there are plenty that do 100% need taking off the road and some vehicles are a disaster waiting to happen, I welcome that aspect but far too often they are milking it to pump the numbers.

[ThrillTribee]

same principle as a breath test, they cannot prosecute from a road side reading, it has to be a reading from the machine at the station or from a blood test.

I’m afraid you has listened to too many whispers on the grapevine. Never heard of anything like he’s saying. If a vehicle is prohibited for being overloaded the weight should be removed before any further travel is permitted. I had my Area Manager tell me in no uncertain terms that if they’re overloaded they stay there until they are legal.

These are the same clowns that will give false measurements on loads to exceed the 2.9m limit so they can pump the numbers.
They work on targets, same as ones that hide in vans on open roads in “safety camera vans”.
It’s all about tickets.
Don’t get me wrong there are plenty that do 100% need taking off the road and some vehicles are a disaster waiting to happen, I welcome that aspect but far too often they are milking it to pump the numbers.

you are inventing a scenario and trying to make your point. What would happen if the local weigh bridges were closed - Bank holidays, weekends or late checks or you’re in a remote location? You would have a policy of check weighing when sometimes you may not be able to. DVSA only permits one legal weigh FACT. You said earlier that you would dig something out. Well try to find something because you are digging, but not in the sense you want. Plus, if you had a weigh bridge ticket that showed you were within your legal limit you wouldn’t get weighed. You have no right for a second check weigh, none, zero. The reason DVSA do not issue any penalty when using mobile pads is because of the possibility that the weighing maybe slightly inaccurate.

[bryan9]

I’m afraid you has listened to too many whispers on the grapevine. Never heard of anything like he’s saying. If a vehicle is prohibited for being overloaded the weight should be removed before any further travel is permitted. I had my Area Manager tell me in no uncertain terms that if they’re overloaded they stay there until they are legal.

These are the same clowns that will give false measurements on loads to exceed the 2.9m limit so they can pump the numbers.
They work on targets, same as ones that hide in vans on open roads in “safety camera vans”.
It’s all about tickets.
Don’t get me wrong there are plenty that do 100% need taking off the road and some vehicles are a disaster waiting to happen, I welcome that aspect but far too often they are milking it to pump the numbers.

you are inventing a scenario and trying to make your point. What would happen if the local weigh bridges were closed - Bank holidays, weekends or late checks or you’re in a remote location? You would have a policy of check weighing when sometimes you may not be able to. DVSA only permits one legal weigh FACT. You said earlier that you would dig something out. Well try to find something because you are digging, but not in the sense you want. Plus, if you had a weigh bridge ticket that showed you were within your legal limit you wouldn’t get weighed. You have no right for a second check weigh, none, zero. The reason DVSA do not issue any penalty when using mobile pads is because of the possibility that the weighing maybe slightly inaccurate.

I’m not disputing the legal weight- I’m disputing the accuracy of roadside weight pads.
The are not always used correctly which will give a false reading.
They can only be used to indicate being over weight on a particular axle not prove.
If the level of the measurement surface did not need to be level it would save a huge amount of money when constructing a weigh bridge.
Race teams wouldn’t waste hours setting up level tables to corner weight cars if it made no difference would they?
If DVSA use a wheel pad weight scale, get a false reading, dish out a fine for said infringement- which they do!
Any weight measurement done later in the proper way would be inadmissible because the load could have been tampered with.

[ThrillTribee]

These are the same clowns that will give false measurements on loads to exceed the 2.9m limit so they can pump the numbers.
They work on targets, same as ones that hide in vans on open roads in “safety camera vans”.
It’s all about tickets.
Don’t get me wrong there are plenty that do 100% need taking off the road and some vehicles are a disaster waiting to happen, I welcome that aspect but far too often they are milking it to pump the numbers.

you are inventing a scenario and trying to make your point. What would happen if the local weigh bridges were closed - Bank holidays, weekends or late checks or you’re in a remote location? You would have a policy of check weighing when sometimes you may not be able to. DVSA only permits one legal weigh FACT. You said earlier that you would dig something out. Well try to find something because you are digging, but not in the sense you want. Plus, if you had a weigh bridge ticket that showed you were within your legal limit you wouldn’t get weighed. You have no right for a second check weigh, none, zero. The reason DVSA do not issue any penalty when using mobile pads is because of the possibility that the weighing maybe slightly inaccurate.

I’m not disputing the legal weight- I’m disputing the accuracy of roadside weight pads.
The are not always used correctly which will give a false reading.
They can only be used to indicate being over weight on a particular axle not prove.
If the level of the measurement surface did not need to be level it would save a huge amount of money when constructing a weigh bridge.
Race teams wouldn’t waste hours setting up level tables to corner weight cars if it made no difference would they?
If DVSA use a wheel pad weight scale, get a false reading, dish out a fine for said infringement- which they do!
Any weight measurement done later in the proper way would be inadmissible because the load could have been tampered with.

you’re using terminology of ‘inadmissible’ ‘fine’ when no prosecution or fines are issued. You may not like some aspects of enforcement but it’s there to take overweight vehicles off the road and try to keep our roads safer. You need to read the Code of Practice and understand what is involved in weighing.

[bryan9]

you are inventing a scenario and trying to make your point. What would happen if the local weigh bridges were closed - Bank holidays, weekends or late checks or you’re in a remote location? You would have a policy of check weighing when sometimes you may not be able to. DVSA only permits one legal weigh FACT. You said earlier that you would dig something out. Well try to find something because you are digging, but not in the sense you want. Plus, if you had a weigh bridge ticket that showed you were within your legal limit you wouldn’t get weighed. You have no right for a second check weigh, none, zero. The reason DVSA do not issue any penalty when using mobile pads is because of the possibility that the weighing maybe slightly inaccurate.

I’m not disputing the legal weight- I’m disputing the accuracy of roadside weight pads.
The are not always used correctly which will give a false reading.
They can only be used to indicate being over weight on a particular axle not prove.
If the level of the measurement surface did not need to be level it would save a huge amount of money when constructing a weigh bridge.
Race teams wouldn’t waste hours setting up level tables to corner weight cars if it made no difference would they?
If DVSA use a wheel pad weight scale, get a false reading, dish out a fine for said infringement- which they do!
Any weight measurement done later in the proper way would be inadmissible because the load could have been tampered with.

you’re using terminology of ‘inadmissible’ ‘fine’ when no prosecution or fines are issued. You may not like some aspects of enforcement but it’s there to take overweight vehicles off the road and try to keep our roads safer. You need to read the Code of Practice and understand what is involved in weighing.

I’ve read it and I am fully aware of the correct way of using weigh pads.
You sound like you maybe are infact a Dvsa officer

[ThrillTribee]

I’m not disputing the legal weight- I’m disputing the accuracy of roadside weight pads.
The are not always used correctly which will give a false reading.
They can only be used to indicate being over weight on a particular axle not prove.
If the level of the measurement surface did not need to be level it would save a huge amount of money when constructing a weigh bridge.
Race teams wouldn’t waste hours setting up level tables to corner weight cars if it made no difference would they?
If DVSA use a wheel pad weight scale, get a false reading, dish out a fine for said infringement- which they do!
Any weight measurement done later in the proper way would be inadmissible because the load could have been tampered with.

you’re using terminology of ‘inadmissible’ ‘fine’ when no prosecution or fines are issued. You may not like some aspects of enforcement but it’s there to take overweight vehicles off the road and try to keep our roads safer. You need to read the Code of Practice and understand what is involved in weighing.

I’ve read it and I am fully aware of the correct way of using weigh pads.
You sound like you maybe are infact a Dvsa officer

the only point I agree with you on is the vehicle axles should be level when the vehicle is weighed. So dummy pads or something that can try to ensure the vehicle/axles are level should be used.

[ThrillTribee]

I’m not disputing the legal weight- I’m disputing the accuracy of roadside weight pads.
The are not always used correctly which will give a false reading.
They can only be used to indicate being over weight on a particular axle not prove.
If the level of the measurement surface did not need to be level it would save a huge amount of money when constructing a weigh bridge.
Race teams wouldn’t waste hours setting up level tables to corner weight cars if it made no difference would they?
If DVSA use a wheel pad weight scale, get a false reading, dish out a fine for said infringement- which they do!
Any weight measurement done later in the proper way would be inadmissible because the load could have been tampered with.

you’re using terminology of ‘inadmissible’ ‘fine’ when no prosecution or fines are issued. You may not like some aspects of enforcement but it’s there to take overweight vehicles off the road and try to keep our roads safer. You need to read the Code of Practice and understand what is involved in weighing.

I’ve read it and I am fully aware of the correct way of using weigh pads.
You sound like you maybe are infact a Dvsa officer

I was.

[jamesst1276]

Why?

[Kevinque]

Looking at the report I think you need to look again at your original weighing which you think meant you were in limits. Being over by more than 30% on front axle and GVW is not a result of a misread.....you were clearly overweight and be thankful you were not on a certified site or the pain you would be facing now would be a whole lot worse.....go check your systems and stop looking for loopholes.....

[AndryUrman]

How would have dealt with it?
The driver (who is very experienced at towing similar loads) said it felt absolutely fine. The suspension looked normal and the tyres were not bulging. This again makes me think the issue is with the weighing process.

[MartinTeam]

It jus amazing how many operators Never overload until caught. 1.Tare weight should be established by weighing the vehicle with full fuel tank, driver in the cab and any passengers if regularly carried, all equipment normally carried. Then weighed on a weighbridge with the driver still in the cab (not getting out to get the weighbridge ticket).
Now you have the real weight of the vehicle. The plated gross 3500kg minus tare weight = Payload.
2 - issue of the height issues between axle be weighed and not will not make any difference to the weights of axles.
3 - adding weight of axle one and axle two = gross vehicle weigh compare the weight of each axle with the plated weights Note don't add the weights on the plate of axle one and two as this will always higher than the permitted vehicle gross weight.
4 - trailer first vehicle hitch what is the max permitted weight on the tow hitch (a plate should be on the backing ate by the hitch giving data) Next get scales could be bathroom type and a weight the trailer nose on the scales using a piece on timber to get the nose the same hight as it would be on the hitch of the towing vehicle. This will give you the nose weight of the trailer ie the weight bring transfered to the hitch and weight of the towing vehicle.
5 - weigh of the trailer weigh fully loaded on a weighbridge. This will give the weight of the trailer compare with gross weight on the trailer plate.
You can also weigh the towing vehicle solo and compare weight on the combination when weighing the towing vehicle only to give the weight transfer from the trailer through the hitch.
Weighbridge needs to be in a pit as any imperfection will alter the weight transfered through the hitch
Compare the GTW with the gross weight of towing vehicle with the trailer attached and weighed fully loaded on a weighbridge.
One you have done all the above then you will know if you have a legal combination.
Most weigh pads will be in 2,5,10kg divisions so +/- 10kg will make no difference on a prohibition as you will be more than 50kg an any axle or gross before they are likely to prohibit.
Message me if you need any further advice.
I hope tacho was fitted if required and driver had the right entitlement.

[hopper]

I had that in a badly constructed horse box.
1 ton heavy on the front axle but 500kg light over all..
Still did me for over weight.

[PiPierre]

I had that in a badly constructed horse box.
1 ton heavy on the front axle but 500kg light over all..
Still did me for over weight.

not surprised they did you, 1 ton over on the axle is dangerous. Surprised they didn't issue a prohibition

[hopper]

I had that in a badly constructed horse box.
1 ton heavy on the front axle but 500kg light over all..
Still did me for over weight.

not surprised they did you, 1 ton over on the axle is dangerous. Surprised they didn't issue a prohibition

just limited me to 40mph.
Initially they want me to unload but I pointed out they would have to be 100% responsible for the racehorses, and that I would have nothing to do with the unloading.

[ThrillTribee]

I had that in a badly constructed horse box.
1 ton heavy on the front axle but 500kg light over all..
Still did me for over weight.

not surprised they did you, 1 ton over on the axle is dangerous. Surprised they didn't issue a prohibition

just limited me to 40mph.
Initially they want me to unload but I pointed out they would have to be 100% responsible for the racehorses, and that I would have nothing to do with the unloading.

that is the only time I have known an overweight vehicle back on the road and I had to clear the prohibition as the horses were unloaded. I raised it as the Examiner was totally wrong. But you are correct that if DVSA prohibit a vehicle with animals on they become responsible for the animal welfare. That’s why not many horsebox vehicles or any livestock vehicles are not stopped on the road. They should be checked at the end journey point.