Hi probably going to get slaughtered for this, Does anyone think we should be on a Standard O Licence? We're on

[AndryUrman]

Hi probably going to get slaughtered for this,
We're on a restricted licence with no TM, transport is not the main part of the business, we deliver and install our own products at customers premises, and usually get paid for the goods after about 2 months, at which point ownership transfers to the customer, we do charge for delivery but it is only a minimal fee mainly to prevent failed deliveries,
We have two lorry’s but they are only out 1 or 2 days a week,
Does anyone think we should be on a Standard O Licence?
Thanks for your advice and please be gentle!

[evamark]

Whereabouts are you. If you need help with compliance systems etc I may be able to help

[AndryUrman]

Whereabouts are you. If you need help with compliance systems etc I may be able to help

sent you a msg

[Jarman]

Yes, you are installing goods or services to a third party with a "reward" element to the journey.
In simple terms, if you go out in the day and return with EXACTLY what you took out, then that's "own account" there restricted is fine. However you are NOT doing that regardless of your payment terms your journey is to fulfill your contractual obligation to provide goods/service of which those items provide a financial "reward" so by default Standard National OL required, no grey area, no thinking but if or I do or don't,

[JiggyCute]

Yes, you are installing goods or services to a third party with a "reward" element to the journey.
In simple terms, if you go out in the day and return with EXACTLY what you took out, then that's "own account" there restricted is fine. However you are NOT doing that regardless of your payment terms your journey is to fulfill your contractual obligation to provide goods/service of which those items provide a financial "reward" so by default Standard National OL required, no grey area, no thinking but if or I do or don't,

interested as to how you came to that conclusion.
As far as I can tell from the original post, the operator is not offering services to transport goods for third parties.
I believe they are perfectly justified in running on a Restricted Licence.

[richielte]

Yes, you are installing goods or services to a third party with a "reward" element to the journey.
In simple terms, if you go out in the day and return with EXACTLY what you took out, then that's "own account" there restricted is fine. However you are NOT doing that regardless of your payment terms your journey is to fulfill your contractual obligation to provide goods/service of which those items provide a financial "reward" so by default Standard National OL required, no grey area, no thinking but if or I do or don't,

interested as to how you came to that conclusion.
As far as I can tell from the original post, the operator is not offering services to transport goods for third parties.
I believe they are perfectly justified in running on a Restricted Licence.

I have to agree with you, Jiggy
They only need a restricted licence, but as much as they don't need a TM, they do need a competent person who really should be as clued up as a TM!

[Jarman]

Yes, you are installing goods or services to a third party with a "reward" element to the journey.
In simple terms, if you go out in the day and return with EXACTLY what you took out, then that's "own account" there restricted is fine. However you are NOT doing that regardless of your payment terms your journey is to fulfill your contractual obligation to provide goods/service of which those items provide a financial "reward" so by default Standard National OL required, no grey area, no thinking but if or I do or don't,

interested as to how you came to that conclusion.
As far as I can tell from the original post, the operator is not offering services to transport goods for third parties.
I believe they are perfectly justified in running on a Restricted Licence.

reread the thread, they deliver/install, get paid after 2 months, charge a small fee for delivery. Seems quite simple from a TM point of view

[Operain]

Yes, you are installing goods or services to a third party with a "reward" element to the journey.
In simple terms, if you go out in the day and return with EXACTLY what you took out, then that's "own account" there restricted is fine. However you are NOT doing that regardless of your payment terms your journey is to fulfill your contractual obligation to provide goods/service of which those items provide a financial "reward" so by default Standard National OL required, no grey area, no thinking but if or I do or don't,

interested as to how you came to that conclusion.
As far as I can tell from the original post, the operator is not offering services to transport goods for third parties.
I believe they are perfectly justified in running on a Restricted Licence.

had the same conversation with him couple of weeks ago. He insists the goods are reward and clearly does not understand the meaning in terms of Operator Licencing.

[punkYoung]

Yes, you are installing goods or services to a third party with a "reward" element to the journey.
In simple terms, if you go out in the day and return with EXACTLY what you took out, then that's "own account" there restricted is fine. However you are NOT doing that regardless of your payment terms your journey is to fulfill your contractual obligation to provide goods/service of which those items provide a financial "reward" so by default Standard National OL required, no grey area, no thinking but if or I do or don't,

interested as to how you came to that conclusion.
As far as I can tell from the original post, the operator is not offering services to transport goods for third parties.
I believe they are perfectly justified in running on a Restricted Licence.

reread the thread, they deliver/install, get paid after 2 months, charge a small fee for delivery. Seems quite simple from a TM point of view

please apologise to Jiggy and grovel at her feet.
You will never know your subject as well as Jiggy.
Try keeping your eyes open and your mouth shut. You MIGHT learn.

[Jarman]

interested as to how you came to that conclusion.
As far as I can tell from the original post, the operator is not offering services to transport goods for third parties.
I believe they are perfectly justified in running on a Restricted Licence.

reread the thread, they deliver/install, get paid after 2 months, charge a small fee for delivery. Seems quite simple from a TM point of view

please apologise to Jiggy and grovel at her feet.
You will never know your subject as well as Jiggy.
Try keeping your eyes open and your mouth shut. You MIGHT learn.

[richielte]

reread the thread, they deliver/install, get paid after 2 months, charge a small fee for delivery. Seems quite simple from a TM point of view

please apologise to Jiggy and grovel at her feet.
You will never know your subject as well as Jiggy.
Try keeping your eyes open and your mouth shut. You MIGHT learn.

The only thing that seems quite simple to a TM is the fact that the operator is running with the correct O Licence.
I think you need to sit down and study the criteria for a restricted and standard Licence!

[LauzaWise]

please apologise to Jiggy and grovel at her feet.
You will never know your subject as well as Jiggy.
Try keeping your eyes open and your mouth shut. You MIGHT learn.

The only thing that seems quite simple to a TM is the fact that the operator is running with the correct O Licence.
I think you need to sit down and study the criteria for a restricted and standard Licence!

I have to agree with you and Jiggy here! If your business was a bakery and you transported your bread to shops/restaurants you would be fine on a Restricted licence. The same applies here.

[selfox]

Yes, you are installing goods or services to a third party with a "reward" element to the journey.
In simple terms, if you go out in the day and return with EXACTLY what you took out, then that's "own account" there restricted is fine. However you are NOT doing that regardless of your payment terms your journey is to fulfill your contractual obligation to provide goods/service of which those items provide a financial "reward" so by default Standard National OL required, no grey area, no thinking but if or I do or don't,

interested as to how you came to that conclusion.
As far as I can tell from the original post, the operator is not offering services to transport goods for third parties.
I believe they are perfectly justified in running on a Restricted Licence.

It’s the charging for delivery that’s the problem using their own vehicles

[JiggyCute]

Yes, you are installing goods or services to a third party with a "reward" element to the journey.
In simple terms, if you go out in the day and return with EXACTLY what you took out, then that's "own account" there restricted is fine. However you are NOT doing that regardless of your payment terms your journey is to fulfill your contractual obligation to provide goods/service of which those items provide a financial "reward" so by default Standard National OL required, no grey area, no thinking but if or I do or don't,

interested as to how you came to that conclusion.
As far as I can tell from the original post, the operator is not offering services to transport goods for third parties.
I believe they are perfectly justified in running on a Restricted Licence.

It’s the charging for delivery that’s the problem using their own vehicles

if they didn't charge for delivery, how would they cover the cost of owning and maintaining the vehicles?

[selfox]

interested as to how you came to that conclusion.
As far as I can tell from the original post, the operator is not offering services to transport goods for third parties.
I believe they are perfectly justified in running on a Restricted Licence.

It’s the charging for delivery that’s the problem using their own vehicles

if they didn't charge for delivery, how would they cover the cost of owning and maintaining the vehicles?

It’s for own use they need a standard or international licence as they are working for hire or reward

[benines]

Yes, you are installing goods or services to a third party with a "reward" element to the journey.
In simple terms, if you go out in the day and return with EXACTLY what you took out, then that's "own account" there restricted is fine. However you are NOT doing that regardless of your payment terms your journey is to fulfill your contractual obligation to provide goods/service of which those items provide a financial "reward" so by default Standard National OL required, no grey area, no thinking but if or I do or don't,

That makes no sense - by definition everything is for reward, that’s what business is about. Take a look at the O Licences held by every single builders merchant for example

[Jarman]

Yes, you are installing goods or services to a third party with a "reward" element to the journey.
In simple terms, if you go out in the day and return with EXACTLY what you took out, then that's "own account" there restricted is fine. However you are NOT doing that regardless of your payment terms your journey is to fulfill your contractual obligation to provide goods/service of which those items provide a financial "reward" so by default Standard National OL required, no grey area, no thinking but if or I do or don't,

That makes no sense - by definition everything is for reward, that’s what business is about. Take a look at the O Licences held by every single builders merchant for example

irrelevant on this case

[Anthorne]

Yes, you are installing goods or services to a third party with a "reward" element to the journey.
In simple terms, if you go out in the day and return with EXACTLY what you took out, then that's "own account" there restricted is fine. However you are NOT doing that regardless of your payment terms your journey is to fulfill your contractual obligation to provide goods/service of which those items provide a financial "reward" so by default Standard National OL required, no grey area, no thinking but if or I do or don't,

That makes no sense - by definition everything is for reward, that’s what business is about. Take a look at the O Licences held by every single builders merchant for example

builders merchants. Merchant being the operative word there. They are selling 3rd party products and not installing simply delivering.
The company above is producing their own goods and doing the install

[Mseares]

Yes, you are installing goods or services to a third party with a "reward" element to the journey.
In simple terms, if you go out in the day and return with EXACTLY what you took out, then that's "own account" there restricted is fine. However you are NOT doing that regardless of your payment terms your journey is to fulfill your contractual obligation to provide goods/service of which those items provide a financial "reward" so by default Standard National OL required, no grey area, no thinking but if or I do or don't,

That makes no sense - by definition everything is for reward, that’s what business is about. Take a look at the O Licences held by every single builders merchant for example

By Definition....? Ffs, no wonder the OTC takes such a DIM View of ETM's

[benines]

Yes, you are installing goods or services to a third party with a "reward" element to the journey.
In simple terms, if you go out in the day and return with EXACTLY what you took out, then that's "own account" there restricted is fine. However you are NOT doing that regardless of your payment terms your journey is to fulfill your contractual obligation to provide goods/service of which those items provide a financial "reward" so by default Standard National OL required, no grey area, no thinking but if or I do or don't,

That makes no sense - by definition everything is for reward, that’s what business is about. Take a look at the O Licences held by every single builders merchant for example

By Definition....? Ffs, no wonder the OTC takes such a DIM View of ETM's

yep

[benines]

Yes, you are installing goods or services to a third party with a "reward" element to the journey.
In simple terms, if you go out in the day and return with EXACTLY what you took out, then that's "own account" there restricted is fine. However you are NOT doing that regardless of your payment terms your journey is to fulfill your contractual obligation to provide goods/service of which those items provide a financial "reward" so by default Standard National OL required, no grey area, no thinking but if or I do or don't,

That makes no sense - by definition everything is for reward, that’s what business is about. Take a look at the O Licences held by every single builders merchant for example

builders merchants. Merchant being the operative word there. They are selling 3rd party products and not installing simply delivering.
The company above is producing their own goods and doing the install

I’m interested. I work for a plumbers merchant. Say we deliver a bathroom to a customer’s home, obviously somebody is going to install it. We don’t, and we’ve been confirmed by OTC to be fine on restricted. What would it be about us doing the install - as opposed to an independent plumber doing it - that would make us need a Standard? Not looking for an argument, I think it’s a really interesting point of view.

[Anthorne]

That makes no sense - by definition everything is for reward, that’s what business is about. Take a look at the O Licences held by every single builders merchant for example

builders merchants. Merchant being the operative word there. They are selling 3rd party products and not installing simply delivering.
The company above is producing their own goods and doing the install

I’m interested. I work for a plumbers merchant. Say we deliver a bathroom to a customer’s home, obviously somebody is going to install it. We don’t, and we’ve been confirmed by OTC to be fine on restricted. What would it be about us doing the install - as opposed to an independent plumber doing it - that would make us need a Standard? Not looking for an argument, I think it’s a really interesting point of view.

can you explain that it in English?

[benines]

builders merchants. Merchant being the operative word there. They are selling 3rd party products and not installing simply delivering.
The company above is producing their own goods and doing the install

I’m interested. I work for a plumbers merchant. Say we deliver a bathroom to a customer’s home, obviously somebody is going to install it. We don’t, and we’ve been confirmed by OTC to be fine on restricted. What would it be about us doing the install - as opposed to an independent plumber doing it - that would make us need a Standard? Not looking for an argument, I think it’s a really interesting point of view.

can you explain that it in English?

Why does installing something mean you need a Standard licence?

[Anthorne]

I’m interested. I work for a plumbers merchant. Say we deliver a bathroom to a customer’s home, obviously somebody is going to install it. We don’t, and we’ve been confirmed by OTC to be fine on restricted. What would it be about us doing the install - as opposed to an independent plumber doing it - that would make us need a Standard? Not looking for an argument, I think it’s a really interesting point of view.

can you explain that it in English?

Why does installing something mean you need a Standard licence?

it doesn’t if it’s your own goods

[benines]

can you explain that it in English?

Why does installing something mean you need a Standard licence?

it doesn’t if it’s your own goods

Ah ok, we might have been talking at cross purposes. So do we agree the OP doesn’t need a Standard licence?

[Anthorne]

Why does installing something mean you need a Standard licence?

it doesn’t if it’s your own goods

Ah ok, we might have been talking at cross purposes. So do we agree the OP doesn’t need a Standard licence?

OP?

[benines]

it doesn’t if it’s your own goods

Ah ok, we might have been talking at cross purposes. So do we agree the OP doesn’t need a Standard licence?

OP?

Original Poster.

[jinChat]

Yes, you are installing goods or services to a third party with a "reward" element to the journey.
In simple terms, if you go out in the day and return with EXACTLY what you took out, then that's "own account" there restricted is fine. However you are NOT doing that regardless of your payment terms your journey is to fulfill your contractual obligation to provide goods/service of which those items provide a financial "reward" so by default Standard National OL required, no grey area, no thinking but if or I do or don't,

That makes no sense - by definition everything is for reward, that’s what business is about. Take a look at the O Licences held by every single builders merchant for example

builders merchants. Merchant being the operative word there. They are selling 3rd party products and not installing simply delivering.
The company above is producing their own goods and doing the install

it's understandable

[Leeland]

Yes, you are installing goods or services to a third party with a "reward" element to the journey.
In simple terms, if you go out in the day and return with EXACTLY what you took out, then that's "own account" there restricted is fine. However you are NOT doing that regardless of your payment terms your journey is to fulfill your contractual obligation to provide goods/service of which those items provide a financial "reward" so by default Standard National OL required, no grey area, no thinking but if or I do or don't,

I used to drive for a nationwide company who made mortar for building sites. We loaded at our factory and delivered it to the clients. The mortar was ours and they bought it from us. We ran on restricted licence. It’s only when you move someone else’s goods for financial reward you need a standard licence

[jamsky]

Yes, you are installing goods or services to a third party with a "reward" element to the journey.
In simple terms, if you go out in the day and return with EXACTLY what you took out, then that's "own account" there restricted is fine. However you are NOT doing that regardless of your payment terms your journey is to fulfill your contractual obligation to provide goods/service of which those items provide a financial "reward" so by default Standard National OL required, no grey area, no thinking but if or I do or don't,

hire and reward does not come into licencing laws, if they are your goods despite what maybe charged for delivery restricted licence.
If you are carrying goods that aren't yours standard national/international dependent on area of operations.
I would think carefully before giving out misleading information.

[Operain]

Yes, you are installing goods or services to a third party with a "reward" element to the journey.
In simple terms, if you go out in the day and return with EXACTLY what you took out, then that's "own account" there restricted is fine. However you are NOT doing that regardless of your payment terms your journey is to fulfill your contractual obligation to provide goods/service of which those items provide a financial "reward" so by default Standard National OL required, no grey area, no thinking but if or I do or don't,

that is not reward for transporting goods. It is in connection with their own goods. A restricted licence is correct with the information provided

[Jarman]

Yes, you are installing goods or services to a third party with a "reward" element to the journey.
In simple terms, if you go out in the day and return with EXACTLY what you took out, then that's "own account" there restricted is fine. However you are NOT doing that regardless of your payment terms your journey is to fulfill your contractual obligation to provide goods/service of which those items provide a financial "reward" so by default Standard National OL required, no grey area, no thinking but if or I do or don't,

that is not reward for transporting goods. It is in connection with their own goods. A restricted licence is correct with the information provided

Once again the poster has been alittle conservative with his description, " we supply our own goods" which we get paid for" , no you sell and install goods that you have sold to a customer charging them for delivery and being paid for such goods. Its irrelevant to mention builders merchants, what others do or not do is not the point. I need not apologies to others for being factually correct.
So true case, company grows plants, wholesale nursery, delivers to garden centres using two hgv's on a restricted, dvsa does an audit, concludes should be standard national, in the determination, the goods being delivered were not theirs but had been bought by the garden centre, the wholesaler was facilitating the contractual obligation and charging a delivery fee for that purpose. The business received a reward for the whole transaction including the value of the goods and that they charged a delivery charge. Standard National granted, no further action.

[jamsky]

Yes, you are installing goods or services to a third party with a "reward" element to the journey.
In simple terms, if you go out in the day and return with EXACTLY what you took out, then that's "own account" there restricted is fine. However you are NOT doing that regardless of your payment terms your journey is to fulfill your contractual obligation to provide goods/service of which those items provide a financial "reward" so by default Standard National OL required, no grey area, no thinking but if or I do or don't,

that is not reward for transporting goods. It is in connection with their own goods. A restricted licence is correct with the information provided

Once again the poster has been alittle conservative with his description, " we supply our own goods" which we get paid for" , no you sell and install goods that you have sold to a customer charging them for delivery and being paid for such goods. Its irrelevant to mention builders merchants, what others do or not do is not the point. I need not apologies to others for being factually correct.
So true case, company grows plants, wholesale nursery, delivers to garden centres using two hgv's on a restricted, dvsa does an audit, concludes should be standard national, in the determination, the goods being delivered were not theirs but had been bought by the garden centre, the wholesaler was facilitating the contractual obligation and charging a delivery fee for that purpose. The business received a reward for the whole transaction including the value of the goods and that they charged a delivery charge. Standard National granted, no further action.

who was the operator and can you support this

[jinChat]

Yes, you are installing goods or services to a third party with a "reward" element to the journey.
In simple terms, if you go out in the day and return with EXACTLY what you took out, then that's "own account" there restricted is fine. However you are NOT doing that regardless of your payment terms your journey is to fulfill your contractual obligation to provide goods/service of which those items provide a financial "reward" so by default Standard National OL required, no grey area, no thinking but if or I do or don't,

that is not reward for transporting goods. It is in connection with their own goods. A restricted licence is correct with the information provided

Once again the poster has been alittle conservative with his description, " we supply our own goods" which we get paid for" , no you sell and install goods that you have sold to a customer charging them for delivery and being paid for such goods. Its irrelevant to mention builders merchants, what others do or not do is not the point. I need not apologies to others for being factually correct.
So true case, company grows plants, wholesale nursery, delivers to garden centres using two hgv's on a restricted, dvsa does an audit, concludes should be standard national, in the determination, the goods being delivered were not theirs but had been bought by the garden centre, the wholesaler was facilitating the contractual obligation and charging a delivery fee for that purpose. The business received a reward for the whole transaction including the value of the goods and that they charged a delivery charge. Standard National granted, no further action.

send the case history

[chiariBug]

Yes, you are installing goods or services to a third party with a "reward" element to the journey.
In simple terms, if you go out in the day and return with EXACTLY what you took out, then that's "own account" there restricted is fine. However you are NOT doing that regardless of your payment terms your journey is to fulfill your contractual obligation to provide goods/service of which those items provide a financial "reward" so by default Standard National OL required, no grey area, no thinking but if or I do or don't,

that is not reward for transporting goods. It is in connection with their own goods. A restricted licence is correct with the information provided

Once again the poster has been alittle conservative with his description, " we supply our own goods" which we get paid for" , no you sell and install goods that you have sold to a customer charging them for delivery and being paid for such goods. Its irrelevant to mention builders merchants, what others do or not do is not the point. I need not apologies to others for being factually correct.
So true case, company grows plants, wholesale nursery, delivers to garden centres using two hgv's on a restricted, dvsa does an audit, concludes should be standard national, in the determination, the goods being delivered were not theirs but had been bought by the garden centre, the wholesaler was facilitating the contractual obligation and charging a delivery fee for that purpose. The business received a reward for the whole transaction including the value of the goods and that they charged a delivery charge. Standard National granted, no further action.

Dude that statement couldn’t be more incorrect. You really need to fact check before making such definitive statements. You don’t need to be coming back with what you took out at all. Builders merchants, timber merchants etc delivering their goods to customers are all absolutely fine on restricted

[JasyJasone]

that is not reward for transporting goods. It is in connection with their own goods. A restricted licence is correct with the information provided

Once again the poster has been alittle conservative with his description, " we supply our own goods" which we get paid for" , no you sell and install goods that you have sold to a customer charging them for delivery and being paid for such goods. Its irrelevant to mention builders merchants, what others do or not do is not the point. I need not apologies to others for being factually correct.
So true case, company grows plants, wholesale nursery, delivers to garden centres using two hgv's on a restricted, dvsa does an audit, concludes should be standard national, in the determination, the goods being delivered were not theirs but had been bought by the garden centre, the wholesaler was facilitating the contractual obligation and charging a delivery fee for that purpose. The business received a reward for the whole transaction including the value of the goods and that they charged a delivery charge. Standard National granted, no further action.

Dude that statement couldn’t be more incorrect. You really need to fact check before making such definitive statements. You don’t need to be coming back with what you took out at all. Builders merchants, timber merchants etc delivering their goods to customers are all absolutely fine on restricted

builders merchants don't charge for delivery, hence restricted is applicable.

[mcIdol]

Once again the poster has been alittle conservative with his description, " we supply our own goods" which we get paid for" , no you sell and install goods that you have sold to a customer charging them for delivery and being paid for such goods. Its irrelevant to mention builders merchants, what others do or not do is not the point. I need not apologies to others for being factually correct.
So true case, company grows plants, wholesale nursery, delivers to garden centres using two hgv's on a restricted, dvsa does an audit, concludes should be standard national, in the determination, the goods being delivered were not theirs but had been bought by the garden centre, the wholesaler was facilitating the contractual obligation and charging a delivery fee for that purpose. The business received a reward for the whole transaction including the value of the goods and that they charged a delivery charge. Standard National granted, no further action.

Dude that statement couldn’t be more incorrect. You really need to fact check before making such definitive statements. You don’t need to be coming back with what you took out at all. Builders merchants, timber merchants etc delivering their goods to customers are all absolutely fine on restricted

builders merchants don't charge for delivery, hence restricted is applicable.

Some do and restricted licence still applies.

[chiariBug]

Once again the poster has been alittle conservative with his description, " we supply our own goods" which we get paid for" , no you sell and install goods that you have sold to a customer charging them for delivery and being paid for such goods. Its irrelevant to mention builders merchants, what others do or not do is not the point. I need not apologies to others for being factually correct.
So true case, company grows plants, wholesale nursery, delivers to garden centres using two hgv's on a restricted, dvsa does an audit, concludes should be standard national, in the determination, the goods being delivered were not theirs but had been bought by the garden centre, the wholesaler was facilitating the contractual obligation and charging a delivery fee for that purpose. The business received a reward for the whole transaction including the value of the goods and that they charged a delivery charge. Standard National granted, no further action.

Dude that statement couldn’t be more incorrect. You really need to fact check before making such definitive statements. You don’t need to be coming back with what you took out at all. Builders merchants, timber merchants etc delivering their goods to customers are all absolutely fine on restricted

builders merchants don't charge for delivery, hence restricted is applicable.

Of course they do. I’ve driven for timber merchants on restricted licences who charged for delivery. It’s fine so long as you’re delivering your own products

[JasyJasone]

Dude that statement couldn’t be more incorrect. You really need to fact check before making such definitive statements. You don’t need to be coming back with what you took out at all. Builders merchants, timber merchants etc delivering their goods to customers are all absolutely fine on restricted

builders merchants don't charge for delivery, hence restricted is applicable.

Of course they do. I’ve driven for timber merchants on restricted licences who charged for delivery. It’s fine so long as you’re delivering your own products

.

[chiariBug]

builders merchants don't charge for delivery, hence restricted is applicable.

Of course they do. I’ve driven for timber merchants on restricted licences who charged for delivery. It’s fine so long as you’re delivering your own products

.

Yes that’s correct. Where does it say they can’t charge for delivery? Plus not exactly an official source of info anyway.

[JasyJasone]

Of course they do. I’ve driven for timber merchants on restricted licences who charged for delivery. It’s fine so long as you’re delivering your own products

.

Yes that’s correct. Where does it say they can’t charge for delivery? Plus not exactly an official source of info anyway.

hire and reward defines charging for delivery.

[chiariBug]

.

Yes that’s correct. Where does it say they can’t charge for delivery? Plus not exactly an official source of info anyway.

hire and reward defines charging for delivery.

and where does it say that you can’t operate for hire and reward with a restricted licence?

[JasyJasone]

Yes that’s correct. Where does it say they can’t charge for delivery? Plus not exactly an official source of info anyway.

hire and reward defines charging for delivery.

and where does it say that you can’t operate for hire and reward with a restricted licence?

another one

[chiariBug]

hire and reward defines charging for delivery.

and where does it say that you can’t operate for hire and reward with a restricted licence?

another one

you really need to look up your info from official sources mate. You can’t just Google random websites and take the info as gospel. Anyway that states you can’t carry “others” goods for hire or reward.

[jinChat]

hire and reward defines charging for delivery.

and where does it say that you can’t operate for hire and reward with a restricted licence?

another one

you are providing evidence to prove you are wrong.
It is the operators goods, hence restricted.
You can not move somebody else's goods.

[JasyJasone]

and where does it say that you can’t operate for hire and reward with a restricted licence?

another one

you really need to look up your info from official sources mate. You can’t just Google random websites and take the info as gospel. Anyway that states you can’t carry “others” goods for hire or reward.

you would find the same info on the DVSA, however it's not publicized. You can try the RHA, FTA, they will all tell you the same.
Using what you so call a random google site isn't ideal, but search the definition of hire and reward and you will understand any payment received for transporting for payment / kind defines hire and reward and is hence illegal on a restricted licence.
I'll now ask you to prove it that it is legal.
I've spent 36 years in logistics running many different licences, including spending time with the DVSA and Commissioners looking into high levels of compliance.
I'm a management cpc qualified instructor and a driver CPC trainer through JAUPT.
I fully understand what you are all saying but any kind of payment for delivery is hire and reward.
Plant has a slightly different ruling but the initial question was about delivering own goods with a small delivery charge. This is deemed illegal under a restricted licence.
Run how you think is right. But if you continue to believe this you will be had up in front of the TC eventually.

[JasyJasone]

and where does it say that you can’t operate for hire and reward with a restricted licence?

another one

you are providing evidence to prove you are wrong.
It is the operators goods, hence restricted.
You can not move somebody else's goods.

or receive any kind of payment. As stated by the original poster a PAYMENT was received for delivery.

[JasyJasone]

and where does it say that you can’t operate for hire and reward with a restricted licence?

another one

you really need to look up your info from official sources mate. You can’t just Google random websites and take the info as gospel. Anyway that states you can’t carry “others” goods for hire or reward.

sorry Chiari it doesn't allow it for hire and reward. Check your facts. I'm not disputing it being own goods, I'm disputing the payment.

[chiariBug]

another one

you really need to look up your info from official sources mate. You can’t just Google random websites and take the info as gospel. Anyway that states you can’t carry “others” goods for hire or reward.

sorry Chiari it doesn't allow it for hire and reward. Check your facts. I'm not disputing it being own goods, I'm disputing the payment.

I think you’re ignoring the main point of a restricted licence. You can only transport your own goods. You seem to be fixated on this hire or reward thing

[chiariBug]

another one

you really need to look up your info from official sources mate. You can’t just Google random websites and take the info as gospel. Anyway that states you can’t carry “others” goods for hire or reward.

sorry Chiari it doesn't allow it for hire and reward. Check your facts. I'm not disputing it being own goods, I'm disputing the payment.

OK so Travis Perkins hold multiple restricted licences. They are members of DVSA earned recognition so have been audited to death. If I go to get some timber delivered then guess what, there’s a delivery charge;

[JasyJasone]

you really need to look up your info from official sources mate. You can’t just Google random websites and take the info as gospel. Anyway that states you can’t carry “others” goods for hire or reward.

sorry Chiari it doesn't allow it for hire and reward. Check your facts. I'm not disputing it being own goods, I'm disputing the payment.

OK so Travis Perkins hold multiple restricted licences. They are members of DVSA earned recognition so have been audited to death. If I go to get some timber delivered then guess what, there’s a delivery charge;

you seem to be correct Chiari. My apologies.

[JasyJasone]

you really need to look up your info from official sources mate. You can’t just Google random websites and take the info as gospel. Anyway that states you can’t carry “others” goods for hire or reward.

sorry Chiari it doesn't allow it for hire and reward. Check your facts. I'm not disputing it being own goods, I'm disputing the payment.

OK so Travis Perkins hold multiple restricted licences. They are members of DVSA earned recognition so have been audited to death. If I go to get some timber delivered then guess what, there’s a delivery charge;

,,,

[tonyHawk]

you really need to look up your info from official sources mate. You can’t just Google random websites and take the info as gospel. Anyway that states you can’t carry “others” goods for hire or reward.

sorry Chiari it doesn't allow it for hire and reward. Check your facts. I'm not disputing it being own goods, I'm disputing the payment.

OK so Travis Perkins hold multiple restricted licences. They are members of DVSA earned recognition so have been audited to death. If I go to get some timber delivered then guess what, there’s a delivery charge;

I completely agree that you always need to make sure that the website you use for information is a credible source of legal information.
I see above that someone posted a screenshot from Wikipedia. Wikipedia has never been a credible source of legal information.

[jinChat]

sorry Chiari it doesn't allow it for hire and reward. Check your facts. I'm not disputing it being own goods, I'm disputing the payment.

OK so Travis Perkins hold multiple restricted licences. They are members of DVSA earned recognition so have been audited to death. If I go to get some timber delivered then guess what, there’s a delivery charge;

you seem to be correct Chiari. My apologies.

better tell Travis Perkins they are doing it wrong. And they have had on site support from LogisticsUK, so better tell them they are wrong too.

[evanshi]

Yes, you are installing goods or services to a third party with a "reward" element to the journey.
In simple terms, if you go out in the day and return with EXACTLY what you took out, then that's "own account" there restricted is fine. However you are NOT doing that regardless of your payment terms your journey is to fulfill your contractual obligation to provide goods/service of which those items provide a financial "reward" so by default Standard National OL required, no grey area, no thinking but if or I do or don't,

wow

[jockeyJolly]

Yes, you are installing goods or services to a third party with a "reward" element to the journey.
In simple terms, if you go out in the day and return with EXACTLY what you took out, then that's "own account" there restricted is fine. However you are NOT doing that regardless of your payment terms your journey is to fulfill your contractual obligation to provide goods/service of which those items provide a financial "reward" so by default Standard National OL required, no grey area, no thinking but if or I do or don't,

as others have said a restricted licence is fine. I suggest you maybe do a refresher and get a full understanding of a restricted operator licence it may help you in the future.

[mcIdol]

Yes, you are installing goods or services to a third party with a "reward" element to the journey.
In simple terms, if you go out in the day and return with EXACTLY what you took out, then that's "own account" there restricted is fine. However you are NOT doing that regardless of your payment terms your journey is to fulfill your contractual obligation to provide goods/service of which those items provide a financial "reward" so by default Standard National OL required, no grey area, no thinking but if or I do or don't,

Jiggy is correct. The goods belong to the operator, so a restricted licence is sufficient.

[JasyJasone]

Yes, you are installing goods or services to a third party with a "reward" element to the journey.
In simple terms, if you go out in the day and return with EXACTLY what you took out, then that's "own account" there restricted is fine. However you are NOT doing that regardless of your payment terms your journey is to fulfill your contractual obligation to provide goods/service of which those items provide a financial "reward" so by default Standard National OL required, no grey area, no thinking but if or I do or don't,

Jiggy is correct. The goods belong to the operator, so a restricted licence is sufficient.

,,,

[Leeland]

Yes, you are installing goods or services to a third party with a "reward" element to the journey.
In simple terms, if you go out in the day and return with EXACTLY what you took out, then that's "own account" there restricted is fine. However you are NOT doing that regardless of your payment terms your journey is to fulfill your contractual obligation to provide goods/service of which those items provide a financial "reward" so by default Standard National OL required, no grey area, no thinking but if or I do or don't,

this is dangerous. You should not be offering advice

[Frankho]

Call or email otc and ask them I have no doubt they’d be very helpful

[AndryUrman]

Call or email otc and ask them I have no doubt they’d be very helpful

I imagine I wouldn’t get a straight answer from them,
But I might try just for peace of mind, I’m fairly confident restricted is correct, I just had that nagging doubt at the back of my mind.

[Frankho]

Call or email otc and ask them I have no doubt they’d be very helpful

I imagine I wouldn’t get a straight answer from them,
But I might try just for peace of mind, I’m fairly confident restricted is correct, I just had that nagging doubt at the back of my mind.

precisely that & yet they expect you to be transparent but they can’t answer questions. They ain’t there to help or for road safety but purely to divide and conquer and hand out punishment

[benines]

In my opinion you’re fine on restricted. The goods are yours at the time they’re on the vehicle. We operate on the same terms. I’ve enquired whether we can charge for delivery (being mindful of the ‘reward’ element and was advised (to my surprise) that we can.

[wayne.22]

Restricted is fine..its your own goods..

[bengram]

You fine on restricted but you shouldn’t charge delivery on a invoice

[punkYoung]

You fine on restricted but you shouldn’t charge delivery on a invoice

irrelevant.

[TASHERGY]

You’re supplying a service you get paid for. Regardless of the payment date, you charge a fee for a delivery, you supply goods - the fact you install it is regardless. I would say you need a standard operating licence and a TM. Albeit a TM that doesn’t get employed by you would be fine, but you definitely need someone in charge of those trucks. Sorry, but I can’t see the grey area here…

[punkYoung]

You’re supplying a service you get paid for. Regardless of the payment date, you charge a fee for a delivery, you supply goods - the fact you install it is regardless. I would say you need a standard operating licence and a TM. Albeit a TM that doesn’t get employed by you would be fine, but you definitely need someone in charge of those trucks. Sorry, but I can’t see the grey area here…

wrong.

[TASHERGY]

You’re supplying a service you get paid for. Regardless of the payment date, you charge a fee for a delivery, you supply goods - the fact you install it is regardless. I would say you need a standard operating licence and a TM. Albeit a TM that doesn’t get employed by you would be fine, but you definitely need someone in charge of those trucks. Sorry, but I can’t see the grey area here…

wrong.

I stand by my answer. It also depends on the Lorries being used, but they are getting a “reward” by charging for delivery and charging for the services.

[Douglava]

You’re supplying a service you get paid for. Regardless of the payment date, you charge a fee for a delivery, you supply goods - the fact you install it is regardless. I would say you need a standard operating licence and a TM. Albeit a TM that doesn’t get employed by you would be fine, but you definitely need someone in charge of those trucks. Sorry, but I can’t see the grey area here…

lots of builders merchants charge for delivery and operate on a restricted licence . The goods dont belong to the customer until delivery so a restricted licence is perfectly fine . The delivery charge is irrelevant .

[ianhill]

You’re supplying a service you get paid for. Regardless of the payment date, you charge a fee for a delivery, you supply goods - the fact you install it is regardless. I would say you need a standard operating licence and a TM. Albeit a TM that doesn’t get employed by you would be fine, but you definitely need someone in charge of those trucks. Sorry, but I can’t see the grey area here…

Scaffolding companies fit your response but they run on restricted licences without TM. Like the question mentioned, "We deliver and install our own products at customers premises".

[TASHERGY]

You’re supplying a service you get paid for. Regardless of the payment date, you charge a fee for a delivery, you supply goods - the fact you install it is regardless. I would say you need a standard operating licence and a TM. Albeit a TM that doesn’t get employed by you would be fine, but you definitely need someone in charge of those trucks. Sorry, but I can’t see the grey area here…

Scaffolding companies fit your response but they run on restricted licences without TM. Like the question mentioned, "We deliver and install our own products at customers premises".

not really, they put up their own product and take their own product away. They charge for the repair they do, not the scaffolding they need to do the work.

[jamieborn2]

You’re supplying a service you get paid for. Regardless of the payment date, you charge a fee for a delivery, you supply goods - the fact you install it is regardless. I would say you need a standard operating licence and a TM. Albeit a TM that doesn’t get employed by you would be fine, but you definitely need someone in charge of those trucks. Sorry, but I can’t see the grey area here…

Scaffolding companies fit your response but they run on restricted licences without TM. Like the question mentioned, "We deliver and install our own products at customers premises".

not really, they put up their own product and take their own product away. They charge for the repair they do, not the scaffolding they need to do the work.

scaffolders don’t do repairs. They put up scaffolding and the trades person does the repairs? they’ll be charging delivery of the product, hire and assembly so hire and reward also?
Every business is hire and reward or else it would be a charity. So we’ll just do away with restricted licences and that’ll sort that one

[TASHERGY]

Scaffolding companies fit your response but they run on restricted licences without TM. Like the question mentioned, "We deliver and install our own products at customers premises".

not really, they put up their own product and take their own product away. They charge for the repair they do, not the scaffolding they need to do the work.

scaffolders don’t do repairs. They put up scaffolding and the trades person does the repairs? they’ll be charging delivery of the product, hire and assembly so hire and reward also?
Every business is hire and reward or else it would be a charity. So we’ll just do away with restricted licences and that’ll sort that one

I’m not getting into a debate with everyone that disagrees with me - the reward with this one is directly linked to the delivery

[ianhill]

You’re supplying a service you get paid for. Regardless of the payment date, you charge a fee for a delivery, you supply goods - the fact you install it is regardless. I would say you need a standard operating licence and a TM. Albeit a TM that doesn’t get employed by you would be fine, but you definitely need someone in charge of those trucks. Sorry, but I can’t see the grey area here…

Scaffolding companies fit your response but they run on restricted licences without TM. Like the question mentioned, "We deliver and install our own products at customers premises".

not really, they put up their own product and take their own product away. They charge for the repair they do, not the scaffolding they need to do the work.

scaffolds charge for the hire and erection of scaffold which are their own goods then take it away when finished. Don't get caught up on the hire and reward bit