Any advice will be appreciated On our last CPC course we were informed of a possible change regarding manual entries

[Timckion772]

On our last CPC course we were informed of a possible change regarding manual entries. The instructor mentioned that in the future we will possibly be expected to record every minute of duty time with a manual entry for our previous and current shift times, start and finish. For example if we clock on at 6am. Collect our keys and paperwork walk to our vehicles and insert our digi card at say 6.03 am we will be expected to record the 3 minutes difference with a manual entry. Apparently the same will apply for the previous shift even just a few minutes will need to be recorded. He said there will be no allowance even for a couple of minutes. I fully understand the need to record let’s say a difference of 20 minutes or more. Any advice will be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

[JONEXURY]

I do this anyway

[2321_croos]

This is already the case, all work related activities need accounting for. So exactly as you've suggested the 3 minutes it takes to get to the truck from the office needs a manual entry.
Why are those 3 minutes any different to the 20 minutes you claim to understand are different?

[Timckion772]

This is already the case, all work related activities need accounting for. So exactly as you've suggested the 3 minutes it takes to get to the truck from the office needs a manual entry.
Why are those 3 minutes any different to the 20 minutes you claim to understand are different?

I do understand the the need for accurate information recording. It’s just that I’ve never been informed about it before. We also get paid from 6am but arrive at work around 5.55 am. We weren’t sure if we were expected to record the few minutes we don’t get paid for.

[2321_croos]

This is already the case, all work related activities need accounting for. So exactly as you've suggested the 3 minutes it takes to get to the truck from the office needs a manual entry.
Why are those 3 minutes any different to the 20 minutes you claim to understand are different?

I do understand the the need for accurate information recording. It’s just that I’ve never been informed about it before. We also get paid from 6am but arrive at work around 5.55 am. We weren’t sure if we were expected to record the few minutes we don’t get paid for.

if its work related, ie under obligation or instruction, it must be accounted for.
If you arrive 5 minutes early, then make a coffee or tea etc. and chew the fat with colleagues before attending/starting work activities you're not working so does not need accounting for.
Prior to acquiring my hgv entitlement drivers clocked in the same way as warehouse staff. But the time they were being paid for didn't tally up with drivers records. VOSA ( as they were at the time) didn't like this practice and thus the company started to transition to a salary based pay scheme for drivers to remove the need to clock in/out and resulting conflicting data sets.

[Timckion772]

This is already the case, all work related activities need accounting for. So exactly as you've suggested the 3 minutes it takes to get to the truck from the office needs a manual entry.
Why are those 3 minutes any different to the 20 minutes you claim to understand are different?

I do understand the the need for accurate information recording. It’s just that I’ve never been informed about it before. We also get paid from 6am but arrive at work around 5.55 am. We weren’t sure if we were expected to record the few minutes we don’t get paid for.

if its work related, ie under obligation or instruction, it must be accounted for.
If you arrive 5 minutes early, then make a coffee or tea etc. and chew the fat with colleagues before attending/starting work activities you're not working so does not need accounting for.
Prior to acquiring my hgv entitlement drivers clocked in the same way as warehouse staff. But the time they were being paid for didn't tally up with drivers records. VOSA ( as they were at the time) didn't like this practice and thus the company started to transition to a salary based pay scheme for drivers to remove the need to clock in/out and resulting conflicting data sets.

I like your answer. Thanks. We get a salary. I asked my boss if we could stop clocking in to cut down on conflicting records. He refused.

[gibzec2398]

100% right. Every minute of duty.

[Keirio]

100% right. Every minute of duty.

Every minute of every duty...and every minute of rest and/or other work between them!

[WebarelNew]

As far as I'm aware that's the law now.
Every hour you are being paid for has to be recorded
I stand to be corrected

[Keirio]

As far as I'm aware that's the law now.
Every hour you are being paid for has to be recorded
I stand to be corrected

and every minute you're not being paid ie. Rest has to be recorded too! In the old days ? was considered as rest...not any more! ? Is now "time unaccounted for" and is considered incomplete records and will get you a fine if you get tugged!

[SayersPro]

I passed my test 4 years ago and was told to do this so for me it's always been the case

[Baynnie]

Been like that for a while now

[paddiex]

From the minute you clock on to the minute you clock off.. You have to record your time.

[neplea]

It's not something new It's always been the case but it's now being enforced

[Timckion772]

It's not something new It's always been the case but it's now being enforced

ok.

[neplea]

It's not something new It's always been the case but it's now being enforced

ok.

so I'm assuming your cpc instructor didn't know what he was talking about

[Timckion772]

It's not something new It's always been the case but it's now being enforced

ok.

so I'm assuming your cpc instructor didn't know what he was talking about

He was really good and informative. I think the confusion was that we get paid from 6am. So if we arrive at 5.55 am did we need to do a manual entry for the 5 minutes difference even though we don’t get paid for it.

[neplea]

ok.

so I'm assuming your cpc instructor didn't know what he was talking about

He was really good and informative. I think the confusion was that we get paid from 6am. So if we arrive at 5.55 am did we need to do a manual entry for the 5 minutes difference even though we don’t get paid for it.

but he told you it was going to possibly change when it's been in force for over 2 years

[Timckion772]

so I'm assuming your cpc instructor didn't know what he was talking about

He was really good and informative. I think the confusion was that we get paid from 6am. So if we arrive at 5.55 am did we need to do a manual entry for the 5 minutes difference even though we don’t get paid for it.

but he told you it was going to possibly change when it's been in force for over 2 years

I don’t expect everyone to know everything.

[neplea]

He was really good and informative. I think the confusion was that we get paid from 6am. So if we arrive at 5.55 am did we need to do a manual entry for the 5 minutes difference even though we don’t get paid for it.

but he told you it was going to possibly change when it's been in force for over 2 years

I don’t expect everyone to know everything.

the law says your card must contain full and accurate details of all work and rest periods for the previous 28days
Any period not covered by an entry will be recorded as ? On the card
This used to be accepted as rest but it's not any more
It will shortly be changing to 56 days records

[neplea]

He was really good and informative. I think the confusion was that we get paid from 6am. So if we arrive at 5.55 am did we need to do a manual entry for the 5 minutes difference even though we don’t get paid for it.

but he told you it was going to possibly change when it's been in force for over 2 years

I don’t expect everyone to know everything.

I don't expect everyone to know everything either but as an instructor he should be an expert on his subject

[legnad]

but he told you it was going to possibly change when it's been in force for over 2 years

I don’t expect everyone to know everything.

I don't expect everyone to know everything either but as an instructor he should be an expert on his subject

I’m guessing you missed a 0 off 20 years! It was always supposed to be the case from the moment Digi cards came in. Companies like calor gas used to insist on it in 2007

[neplea]

I don’t expect everyone to know everything.

I don't expect everyone to know everything either but as an instructor he should be an expert on his subject

I’m guessing you missed a 0 off 20 years! It was always supposed to be the case from the moment Digi cards came in. Companies like calor gas used to insist on it in 2007

no mate as I said it's always been the case but it's only in the last couple of years they've started enforcing it
They used to accept ? as rest but now they don't

[Jrba]

I don’t expect everyone to know everything.

I don't expect everyone to know everything either but as an instructor he should be an expert on his subject

I’m guessing you missed a 0 off 20 years! It was always supposed to be the case from the moment Digi cards came in. Companies like calor gas used to insist on it in 2007

It's always been the case, but DVSA only started enforcing it from August 2022.

[Jrba]

He was really good and informative. I think the confusion was that we get paid from 6am. So if we arrive at 5.55 am did we need to do a manual entry for the 5 minutes difference even though we don’t get paid for it.

but he told you it was going to possibly change when it's been in force for over 2 years

I don’t expect everyone to know everything.

Maybe not, but I would expect a trainer to know the laws.

[Websetin773]

I don't expect everyone to know everything either but as an instructor he should be an expert on his subject

I’m guessing you missed a 0 off 20 years! It was always supposed to be the case from the moment Digi cards came in. Companies like calor gas used to insist on it in 2007

no mate as I said it's always been the case but it's only in the last couple of years they've started enforcing it
They used to accept ? as rest but now they don't

standard then

[codlinte72]

I already do that

[doug7jong]

Have to put manual entry in for everything you do, so rest for at home etc.

[HaleVash]

Always done it.

[kanel1831]

They want us to do that but you get distracted for 2 seconds by someone/something as you put your card a woof! No manual entry.
Why doesn’t the tacho stay on that screen until you press yes/no? Annoying.

[nellpHage]

I always do it i even do it from when I leave my house to when I get home but I only live a minute from the office

[sid8ollux]

I always do it i even do it from when I leave my house to when I get home but I only live a minute from the office

unless you're saying you record your travel time as rest (which is part of your daily or weekly your rest), then you're not doing it right as commuting to/from a fixed place of work isn't 'work' so does not form part of your duty time and shouldn't be recorded as such.

[landerLeeh]

Always do it and always have. Get dragged into the office if there's a gap at the start/ end of your shift.

[sarahan]

I thought that was the norm but I've heard of companies that only pay from when you put your card in, not for what you manually enter

[sid8ollux]

I thought that was the norm but I've heard of companies that only pay from when you put your card in, not for what you manually enter

D&D Haulage in Heanor pay on tacho time but not sure about manual entries. I'd imagine they'd look at manual entries to check there was only a small amount of time manually entered even if they do....

[Goving-Tan]

it already a thing that should be done

[BogMint]

Who's gonna check the accuracy to the minute?

[Jrba]

Who's gonna check the accuracy to the minute?

DVSA for starters

[BogMint]

Who's gonna check the accuracy to the minute?

DVSA for starters

how will they manage such a feat? will they track the vehicle, call the owner company, request video footage from said date, do a forensic analysis of the footage to identify who is who and then slap a 30 quid fine for 10 minutes discrepancy?

[Jrba]

Who's gonna check the accuracy to the minute?

DVSA for starters

how will they manage such a feat? will they track the vehicle, call the owner company, request video footage from said date, do a forensic analysis of the footage to identify who is who and then slap a 30 quid fine for 10 minutes discrepancy?

You asked a question, I gave you an answer. I'm not responsible for you being a end.

[BogMint]

DVSA for starters

how will they manage such a feat? will they track the vehicle, call the owner company, request video footage from said date, do a forensic analysis of the footage to identify who is who and then slap a 30 quid fine for 10 minutes discrepancy?

You asked a question, I gave you an answer. I'm not responsible for you being a end.

not pivking a fight, but some stuff they come up with is really out of the realm of spy movies...

[Jrba]

how will they manage such a feat? will they track the vehicle, call the owner company, request video footage from said date, do a forensic analysis of the footage to identify who is who and then slap a 30 quid fine for 10 minutes discrepancy?

You asked a question, I gave you an answer. I'm not responsible for you being a end.

not pivking a fight, but some stuff they come up with is really out of the realm of spy movies...

Anything that can improve road safety is good in my eyes. And getting the cowboys off the roads is always a good thing.

[BogMint]

You asked a question, I gave you an answer. I'm not responsible for you being a end.

not pivking a fight, but some stuff they come up with is really out of the realm of spy movies...

Anything that can improve road safety is good in my eyes. And getting the cowboys off the roads is always a good thing.

declaring 8 minutes of work instead of 5 at the end of a shift makes a cowboy? come on....there are bigger issues out there...won't improve no1s safety, just increase the size of the coffers. my opinion...

[sellsco15]

Why would you not want every minute you work recording?

[Timckion772]

Why would you not want every minute you work recording?

I didn’t imply I didn’t want to record it. I was just checking up I’d got the situation correct.

[Nolance]

I do that now so no difference

[jesus3tion]

that should be done

[7charles]

No common sense left now

[pidkey-2122]

It's nothing new. I did it since day 1 on the job. Manual entries to finish the previous shift, rest, start the current shift. I thought all drivers do it.
What if You get stopped by vosa and they check your tacho only to find some butchered incomplete shifts and unexplained gaps in-between?

[Nobla.Nova]

Isn't the cpc course supposed to be recorded too?

[Doyon1412]

Isn't the cpc course supposed to be recorded too?

Yes, if it’s paid

[Jrba]

Isn't the cpc course supposed to be recorded too?

Yes, if it’s paid

No, unless you're obliged or instructed to attend then it must be recorded as Other Work.

[Doyon1412]

Isn't the cpc course supposed to be recorded too?

Yes, if it’s paid

No, unless you're obliged or instructed to attend then it must be recorded as Other Work.

Obviously other work.
But it must be recorded and we are all obligated to attend or we can’t work

[Jrba]

Yes, if it’s paid

No, unless you're obliged or instructed to attend then it must be recorded as Other Work.

Obviously other work.
But it must be recorded and we are all obligated to attend or we can’t work

The regulations are very clear about this, if you choose to attend then that period can still be recorded as Rest.

[Doyon1412]

No, unless you're obliged or instructed to attend then it must be recorded as Other Work.

Obviously other work.
But it must be recorded and we are all obligated to attend or we can’t work

The regulations are very clear about this, if you choose to attend then that period can still be recorded as Rest.

Amazing
Because under no circumstances would I record a CPC course, online indoors or at any physical premises in person, as rest. If I’m not free to dispose of my time as I choose, then it is not rest whatever the regulations may or may not say, and I have not checked. I will not ever record it as such, regardless.

[Timckion772]

Obviously other work.
But it must be recorded and we are all obligated to attend or we can’t work

The regulations are very clear about this, if you choose to attend then that period can still be recorded as Rest.

Amazing
Because under no circumstances would I record a CPC course, online indoors or at any physical premises in person, as rest. If I’m not free to dispose of my time as I choose, then it is not rest whatever the regulations may or may not say, and I have not checked. I will not ever record it as such, regardless.

The views on this seem to differ. Personally I can see why people get confused with all the misinformation. I chose to record my time on any course as duty time. After all, it’s as you say time you can’t possibly be free to dispose of if you’re in a classroom for 8 hours.

[Jrba]

Obviously other work.
But it must be recorded and we are all obligated to attend or we can’t work

The regulations are very clear about this, if you choose to attend then that period can still be recorded as Rest.

Amazing
Because under no circumstances would I record a CPC course, online indoors or at any physical premises in person, as rest. If I’m not free to dispose of my time as I choose, then it is not rest whatever the regulations may or may not say, and I have not checked. I will not ever record it as such, regardless.

But if you have chosen to attend a course then you HAVE disposed of your time freely.

[Jrba]

The regulations are very clear about this, if you choose to attend then that period can still be recorded as Rest.

Amazing
Because under no circumstances would I record a CPC course, online indoors or at any physical premises in person, as rest. If I’m not free to dispose of my time as I choose, then it is not rest whatever the regulations may or may not say, and I have not checked. I will not ever record it as such, regardless.

The views on this seem to differ. Personally I can see why people get confused with all the misinformation. I chose to record my time on any course as duty time. After all, it’s as you say time you can’t possibly be free to dispose of if you’re in a classroom for 8 hours.

There is certainly no confusion. If you chose to attend then it can be recorded as Rest.

[Jrba]

Obviously other work.
But it must be recorded and we are all obligated to attend or we can’t work

The regulations are very clear about this, if you choose to attend then that period can still be recorded as Rest.

Amazing
Because under no circumstances would I record a CPC course, online indoors or at any physical premises in person, as rest. If I’m not free to dispose of my time as I choose, then it is not rest whatever the regulations may or may not say, and I have not checked. I will not ever record it as such, regardless.

!!

[Jrba]

The regulations are very clear about this, if you choose to attend then that period can still be recorded as Rest.

Amazing
Because under no circumstances would I record a CPC course, online indoors or at any physical premises in person, as rest. If I’m not free to dispose of my time as I choose, then it is not rest whatever the regulations may or may not say, and I have not checked. I will not ever record it as such, regardless.

The views on this seem to differ. Personally I can see why people get confused with all the misinformation. I chose to record my time on any course as duty time. After all, it’s as you say time you can’t possibly be free to dispose of if you’re in a classroom for 8 hours.

!!

[Nobla.Nova]

Isn't the cpc course supposed to be recorded too?

Yes, if it’s paid

No, unless you're obliged or instructed to attend then it must be recorded as Other Work.

just as I was told, on a tacho course (non cpc)

[Doyon1412]

The regulations are very clear about this, if you choose to attend then that period can still be recorded as Rest.

Amazing
Because under no circumstances would I record a CPC course, online indoors or at any physical premises in person, as rest. If I’m not free to dispose of my time as I choose, then it is not rest whatever the regulations may or may not say, and I have not checked. I will not ever record it as such, regardless.

But if you have chosen to attend a course then you HAVE disposed of your time freely.

I don’t know anyone who would choose to attend a CPC course voluntarily
I think you absolutely must be joking

[Doyon1412]

The regulations are very clear about this, if you choose to attend then that period can still be recorded as Rest.

Amazing
Because under no circumstances would I record a CPC course, online indoors or at any physical premises in person, as rest. If I’m not free to dispose of my time as I choose, then it is not rest whatever the regulations may or may not say, and I have not checked. I will not ever record it as such, regardless.

!!

And there it is
NOT at the request of the employer..
Who thinks, I know
I’ll just do a CPC course on my rest period .. happy days
To be honest
It just demonstrates how ludicrous the whole situation is that it’s even possible to classify as a rest period; more like a get out to make you work because you’ve had your ‘rest’

[Jrba]

Yes, if it’s paid

No, unless you're obliged or instructed to attend then it must be recorded as Other Work.

just as I was told, on a tacho course (non cpc)

That would depend on the circumstances of why you attended. If you choose to attend then it can be recorded as Rest. If you're obliged or instructed to attend then it must be recorded as Other Work. Whether you're paid or not, or if your employer pays for the training is irrelevant.

[nide+ppam]

Isn't the cpc course supposed to be recorded too?

if your work place have booked it and you go on there say so yes, as working time, if they ask you to go and you volunteer on your own time it's rest. If you go on your rest day it is also rest.

[Doyon1412]

Isn't the cpc course supposed to be recorded too?

if your work place have booked it and you go on there say so yes, as working time, if they ask you to go and you volunteer on your own time it's rest. If you go on your rest day it is also rest.

Just for the record
If my employer told me to record a rest while doing a CPC in my own time I’d refuse and the circumstances that followed would be what they were. CPC course attendance isn’t resting whether you agreed or chose to do it (to humour the scenario) .. if you can’t sleep or unwind or eat or bathe or go running or whatever your relaxation method is, it’s not resting so the rules make a mockery of recording a rest period. Can’t say I’m surprised but I will not entertain it personally.

[nide+ppam]

Isn't the cpc course supposed to be recorded too?

if your work place have booked it and you go on there say so yes, as working time, if they ask you to go and you volunteer on your own time it's rest. If you go on your rest day it is also rest.

Just for the record
If my employer told me to record a rest while doing a CPC in my own time I’d refuse and the circumstances that followed would be what they were. CPC course attendance isn’t resting whether you agreed or chose to do it (to humour the scenario) .. if you can’t sleep or unwind or eat or bathe or go running or whatever your relaxation method is, it’s not resting so the rules make a mockery of recording a rest period. Can’t say I’m surprised but I will not entertain it personally.

my employer didn't tell me that, the guy taking my cpc last Friday did.

[Doyon1412]

if your work place have booked it and you go on there say so yes, as working time, if they ask you to go and you volunteer on your own time it's rest. If you go on your rest day it is also rest.

Just for the record
If my employer told me to record a rest while doing a CPC in my own time I’d refuse and the circumstances that followed would be what they were. CPC course attendance isn’t resting whether you agreed or chose to do it (to humour the scenario) .. if you can’t sleep or unwind or eat or bathe or go running or whatever your relaxation method is, it’s not resting so the rules make a mockery of recording a rest period. Can’t say I’m surprised but I will not entertain it personally.

my employer didn't tell me that, the guy taking my cpc last Friday did.

Just stating my position on it that’s all

[Timckion772]

Just for the record
If my employer told me to record a rest while doing a CPC in my own time I’d refuse and the circumstances that followed would be what they were. CPC course attendance isn’t resting whether you agreed or chose to do it (to humour the scenario) .. if you can’t sleep or unwind or eat or bathe or go running or whatever your relaxation method is, it’s not resting so the rules make a mockery of recording a rest period. Can’t say I’m surprised but I will not entertain it personally.

my employer didn't tell me that, the guy taking my cpc last Friday did.

Just stating my position on it that’s all

Excellent reply and intelligently put. I totally agree. Plus I disagree with the muddled information regarding duty time/rest and training. To be able to class an 8 hour course as rest when your mind is being mentally taxed and your absorbing information is definitely not resting. It’s actually proven that being mentally tired is harder to manage than physical tiredness. I’m constantly reminded by various people that managing drivers hours, rest periods and operating legally as a driver is quite straightforward. . REALLY. If that was the case, Nobody would be asking advice on this site, VOSA and the Police wouldn’t be prosecuting drivers. There wouldn’t be anyone having their o license revoked and nobody would be prosecuted for loading vehicles incorrectly. It’s time for simple professional consistent training to take place. Plus stop putting all the responsibility on the driver.

[Doyon1412]

my employer didn't tell me that, the guy taking my cpc last Friday did.

Just stating my position on it that’s all

Excellent reply and intelligently put. I totally agree. Plus I disagree with the muddled information regarding duty time/rest and training. To be able to class an 8 hour course as rest when your mind is being mentally taxed and your absorbing information is definitely not resting. It’s actually proven that being mentally tired is harder to manage than physical tiredness. I’m constantly reminded by various people that managing drivers hours, rest periods and operating legally as a driver is quite straightforward. . REALLY. If that was the case, Nobody would be asking advice on this site, VOSA and the Police wouldn’t be prosecuting drivers. There wouldn’t be anyone having their o license revoked and nobody would be prosecuted for loading vehicles incorrectly. It’s time for simple professional consistent training to take place. Plus stop putting all the responsibility on the driver.

Agreed. However, if that were to become the case, a whole of of revenue raisin’ and employment opportunities would vanish instantly
imagine if you will, just how tempting it would be to make the rules complexed, confusing and convoluted, driven by the aforementioned agendas .. not suggesting that the various authorities would sacrifice integrity just to keep themselves in a job or to make money of course .

[Timckion772]

Just stating my position on it that’s all

Excellent reply and intelligently put. I totally agree. Plus I disagree with the muddled information regarding duty time/rest and training. To be able to class an 8 hour course as rest when your mind is being mentally taxed and your absorbing information is definitely not resting. It’s actually proven that being mentally tired is harder to manage than physical tiredness. I’m constantly reminded by various people that managing drivers hours, rest periods and operating legally as a driver is quite straightforward. . REALLY. If that was the case, Nobody would be asking advice on this site, VOSA and the Police wouldn’t be prosecuting drivers. There wouldn’t be anyone having their o license revoked and nobody would be prosecuted for loading vehicles incorrectly. It’s time for simple professional consistent training to take place. Plus stop putting all the responsibility on the driver.

Agreed. However, if that were to become the case, a whole of of revenue raisin’ and employment opportunities would vanish instantly
imagine if you will, just how tempting it would be to make the rules complexed, confusing and convoluted, driven by the aforementioned agendas .. not suggesting that the various authorities would sacrifice integrity just to keep themselves in a job or to make money of course .

I agree. Confusion created by inconsistent advice and a lack of training causes mistakes. Mistakes lead to penalties. Or as a friend once commented,,,ENTRAPMENT.

[Doyon1412]

Excellent reply and intelligently put. I totally agree. Plus I disagree with the muddled information regarding duty time/rest and training. To be able to class an 8 hour course as rest when your mind is being mentally taxed and your absorbing information is definitely not resting. It’s actually proven that being mentally tired is harder to manage than physical tiredness. I’m constantly reminded by various people that managing drivers hours, rest periods and operating legally as a driver is quite straightforward. . REALLY. If that was the case, Nobody would be asking advice on this site, VOSA and the Police wouldn’t be prosecuting drivers. There wouldn’t be anyone having their o license revoked and nobody would be prosecuted for loading vehicles incorrectly. It’s time for simple professional consistent training to take place. Plus stop putting all the responsibility on the driver.

Agreed. However, if that were to become the case, a whole of of revenue raisin’ and employment opportunities would vanish instantly
imagine if you will, just how tempting it would be to make the rules complexed, confusing and convoluted, driven by the aforementioned agendas .. not suggesting that the various authorities would sacrifice integrity just to keep themselves in a job or to make money of course .

I agree. Confusion created by inconsistent advice and a lack of training causes mistakes. Mistakes lead to penalties. Or as a friend once commented,,,ENTRAPMENT.

Hate the industry tbh
Can’t wait to get the f*** out!

[Timckion772]

Agreed. However, if that were to become the case, a whole of of revenue raisin’ and employment opportunities would vanish instantly
imagine if you will, just how tempting it would be to make the rules complexed, confusing and convoluted, driven by the aforementioned agendas .. not suggesting that the various authorities would sacrifice integrity just to keep themselves in a job or to make money of course .

I agree. Confusion created by inconsistent advice and a lack of training causes mistakes. Mistakes lead to penalties. Or as a friend once commented,,,ENTRAPMENT.

Hate the industry tbh
Can’t wait to get the f*** out!

I can’t blame you. Good luck if you change your career.

[Doyon1412]

I agree. Confusion created by inconsistent advice and a lack of training causes mistakes. Mistakes lead to penalties. Or as a friend once commented,,,ENTRAPMENT.

Hate the industry tbh
Can’t wait to get the f*** out!

I can’t blame you. Good luck if you change your career.

Thank you

[Timckion772]

Hate the industry tbh
Can’t wait to get the f*** out!

I can’t blame you. Good luck if you change your career.

Thank you

Your welcome. Remember the good times.